240+ Knives and 1k Stones Are Hivemind Hype!

[Jovidah]

Admittedly though, you also use knives without handles and pinchgrip a 150 petty without complaining about knuckle clearance. Even though you don't wear a cape, you're not exactly a normal person.
Also, while you cut everything in 4 minutes you then spend 6 minutes to clean up all the debris that's flying all around the kitchen.

 

[stringer]

I started cooking professionally in 2005. My first knife for culinary school was a Vic Fibrox 10". I used mostly that and whatever house knives were available at places I worked. The house knives were invariably the kind provided by a rental company and ground once a week by a guy in a truck.

In between mutilations by the guy in the truck you would try and keep the thing sharp with a honing steel. And there always seemed to be one of those hardware store Chinese made crystolon knockoff oil stones in a drawer somewhere. I still use knives similar to this in my current role running a non profit workforce training restaurant and community commissary kitchen. These knives are big, heavy, and soft. They are sharpened on a coarse belt or bench grinder.

Once you spend 50 hours per week for 10+ years with one of these in your hands anything smaller than a 240 really feels like a toy.

And like @BrokenChef was saying in a different thread. The vast majority of restaurants and restaurant workers are using knives like these. It isn't really a macho thing. It is the way people are trained and the tools that are available. If you make the transition to using Japanese style knives that are thinner, harder, and more fragile, then there is a bit of learning curve. The vast majority of my coworkers over the years looked at my Japanese knives with utter bewilderment. They had no interest in spending any amount of money on something that they would use at work that work already provided.

I still use knives very similar to this every day and maintain a fleet of 30 or so for the community kitchen.

 

[bsfsu]

I started cooking professionally in 2005. My first knife for culinary school was a Vic Fibrox 10". I used mostly that and whatever house knives were available at places I worked. The house knives were invariably the kind provided by a rental company and ground once a week by a guy in a truck.

View attachment 290177


In between mutilations by the guy in the truck you would try and keep the thing sharp with a honing steel. And there always seemed to be one of those hardware store Chinese made crystolon knockoff oil stones in a drawer somewhere. I still use knives similar to this in my current role running a non profit workforce training restaurant and community commissary kitchen. These knives are big, heavy, and soft. They are sharpened on a coarse belt or bench grinder.

Once you spend 50 hours per week for 10+ years with one of these in your hands anything smaller than a 240 really feels like a toy.

And like @BrokenChef was saying in a different thread. The vast majority of restaurants and restaurant workers are using knives like these. It isn't really a macho thing. It is the way people are trained and the tools that are available. If you make the transition to using Japanese style knives that are thinner, harder, and more fragile, then there is a bit of learning curve. The vast majority of my coworkers over the years looked at my Japanese knives with utter bewilderment. They had no interest in spending any amount of money on something that they would use at work that work already provided.

I still use knives very similar to this every day and maintain a fleet of 30 or so for the community kitchen.

I second this, @stringer has hit it on the head. In a commercial setting you need a knife that can cover a range of prep scenarios, the 240-300 chef knife covers that. Hence 240mm recommendation that gets thrown around. It funny watching a chef with a Santoku on a pumpkin.

The 1000 stone is in my mind the right stone for a new knife purchase. Hence the recommendation.
I generally use low grit stones the most, but I sharpen and repair knives for a living (sometimes people buy knives from me too). As an introductory stone, the 1000 will remove steel but won't remove too much so it's good for learning with.

 

[MowgFace]

I have since omitted the 1000 grit from my normal sharpening, it was my first stone and is still in use today!

It’s an imanishi red brick that lives at my moms house with a King Icebear 6000 so I don’t have to lug around stones.

Gave me plenty of “repetitions” on very dull knives.

 

[Codered]

on knife length,I like 180-210-220 ish gyutos as a home cook. I cook for friends and that means i take my time to gently push cut veggies and protein. I use some fancy poly ruberized boards, one for protein and one for veggies since that material takes no tole on the edge and my knives stay sharp for months. i have knives from 240 and even 270 and they are cool to show off and lenth measurement contests with friends but in a home kitchen they are not as used as the shorter knives. the 270 i used to carve cantaloupes or some roast meat(as i am missing a yanagiba).
So shorter knives are the way to go for me. i am 6 foot tall and have normal hands, and on my 180 long and 47 tall takamura i have enough knuckle space to use the knife in any position i can immagine.

regarding sharpening stones, I am old school. i remember a video from a humble smith called bob kramer talking about a stone progression starting from 1k to 10k grit stones and explaining that polishing the edge helps smooth out the toothier edge from smaller grit stones making the edge last longer. he was also slicing some tomatoes with that polished edge of his, and i said "hey what the heck this guy might know a thing or two about knife sharpening". so i did what he did and became quite good at it in the years to follow. i am usually gently touching up my knives according to edge status. there are no dull edges in my house so usually grit stays 3k and above. i don't need to feel a burr if my knife has little ware and it's thin and just needs a touchup to be splitting hairs. Now to see you talking about sharpening on a 400 grit stone makes me raise a brow( not a burr) and i'm thining that you must be batoning wood with your kitchen knives or be cutting on a glass board to get such a dull edge on a gyuto. I usually use 400 and 800 grit stones on my axes and machete after some hard chopping.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

on knife length,I like 180-210-220 ish gyutos as a home cook. I cook for friends and that means i take my time to gently push cut veggies and protein. I use some fancy poly ruberized boards, one for protein and one for veggies since that material takes no tole on the edge and my knives stay sharp for months. i have knives from 240 and even 270 and they are cool to show off and lenth measurement contests with friends but in a home kitchen they are not as used as the shorter knives. the 270 i used to carve cantaloupes or some roast meat(as i am missing a yanagiba).
So shorter knives are the way to go for me. i am 6 foot tall and have normal hands, and on my 180 long and 47 tall takamura i have enough knuckle space to use the knife in any position i can immagine.

regarding sharpening stones, I am old school. i remember a video from a humble smith called bob kramer talking about a stone progression starting from 1k to 10k grit stones and explaining that polishing the edge helps smooth out the toothier edge from smaller grit stones making the edge last longer. he was also slicing some tomatoes with that polished edge of his, and i said "hey what the heck this guy might know a thing or two about knife sharpening". so i did what he did and became quite good at it in the years to follow. i am usually gently touching up my knives according to edge status. there are no dull edges in my house so usually grit stays 3k and above. i don't need to feel a burr if my knife has little ware and it's thin and just needs a touchup to be splitting hairs. Now to see you talking about sharpening on a 400 grit stone makes me raise a brow( not a burr) and i'm thining that you must be batoning wood with your kitchen knives or be cutting on a glass board to get such a dull edge on a gyuto. I usually use 400 and 800 grit stones on my axes and machete after some hard chopping.

My maintenance sharpening is usually 2k+. If I need to actually sharpen, then yeah, I drop down, typically to a SG500. It takes very little to raise the burr and reset everything.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah these days I don't let anything get dull enough to really require a drop down unless I explicitly want to start low and end kinda low for extra tooth. Pretty much all my knives just get touched up on a coticule or Chosera 3k+BBW.

I still think 1k is a good starter stone though, it's what I learned on, but it definitely kept mistakes smaller than what I'd do on my SP 320.

If I had to pick 1 synthetic it'd be a Chosera 800. Lately I've been doing that with a few deburring strokes on a BBW and have been super happy with it's final edge.

 

[Dan-]

Are you always so arrogant?

No, he is Dutch. Here’s a primer on their culture: Dutch culture and social etiquette

Edit: clarified language.

 

[Barmoley]

No, he is Dutch. Here’s a primer on their culture: Dutch culture and social etiquette

Edit: clarified language.

I don't know, after the whole knife length used by professionals is driven by mucho male thing I thought the reply was rather tame.

 

[bradmacmt]

No, the opposite rather. That's why I'm struggling to see the problem when even someone as clunky and clumsy as me can use 240s even on boards that are 25 cm deep just fine (that's 10 inches).
I apologize if it somehow came across as arrogant or derisive but that's not how it was intended.

Unless you're physically tipping the knife into a wall because the workspace is only 30 cm deep I genuinely have problems imagining how it's problematic.
And I have nothing against trailers, it's just the only place I can think of where you regularly see such shallow countertops.

In your first post you say "you must either be living in a trailer or doing something wrong." In the world I inhabit, besides being condescending, it's very black and white thinking. But perhaps black and white thinking is common in the Netherlands? Dunno, the Netherlands is one of the few European countries I've not been to or lived in. Most of us mortals arrive at our choices through our own personal experiences and preferences, and our reasons are generally far more complicated and nuanced.

I designed and built my home (I'm an artist, designer, and builder). I'm also a backpacker/climber and more than a bit of a minimalist, so while I build big, expensive homes for clients, with large and elaborate kitchens (often with a butlers pantry), for my own homes I take a "less is more," "ounces make pounds" approach, which is in keeping with my own world view.

I designed my current (galley-style) kitchen (now over 10 years old) with compactness and efficiency in mind. Since I often work side by side with my wife, I feel more comfortable with a smaller knife (I hardly ever use anything larger than a 180mm knife). Shorter knives in a compact kitchen feel more natural to me, and as a non-animal eater, I've not found the need for anything longer than 210 day to day. And when/if I do, I need something a lot larger than 240mm. Our sink is small, and I always felt uneasy cleaning a 240 in the sink, or putting it back into the block in its tight location (think doinking the tip). Working on a small board was the least of my issues with the 240, though I'd still prefer a larger board with it and longer knives.

I'm quite good (actually, exceptionally good) with my hands, and that includes using knives. As a child, I learned how to butcher in my grandfathers slaughter house and butcher shop. Also, as a child I learned to fillet fish in the fish-market of Bergen, Norway. I'm pretty handy with any sized knife you care to give me. I just find no need on a daily basis for anything beyond 210mm, and we do eat a LOT of produce. My wife does all her prep with a 6" Chefs knife. She's a rocker cutter, which is not my go-to cutting method, hence my preference for more traditional Japanese shaped blades with big flat spots.

Recently, in order to clear up more counter space, I put away my Moccmaster and electric grinder and switched to a French Press with hand-grinder. It happily resulted in more counter space, and less coffee intake

Our compact kitchen -

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

In your first post you say "you must either be living in a trailer or doing something wrong." In the world I inhabit, besides being condescending, it's very black and white thinking. But perhaps black and white thinking is common in the Netherlands? Dunno, the Netherlands is one of the few European countries I've not been to or lived in. Most of us mortals arrive at our choices through our own personal experiences and preferences, and our reasons are generally far more complicated and nuanced.

I designed and built my home (I'm an artist, designer, and builder). I'm also a backpacker/climber and more than a bit of a minimalist, so while I build big, expensive homes for clients, with large and elaborate kitchens (often with a butlers pantry), for my own homes I take a "less is more," "ounces make pounds" approach, which is in keeping with my own world view.

I designed my current (galley-style) kitchen (now over 10 years old) with compactness and efficiency in mind. Since I often work side by side with my wife, I feel more comfortable with a smaller knife (I hardly ever use anything larger than a 180mm knife). Shorter knives in a compact kitchen feel more natural to me, and as a non-animal eater, I've not found the need for anything longer than 210 day to day. And when/if I do, I need something a lot larger than 240mm. Our sink is small, and I always felt uneasy cleaning a 240 in the sink, or putting it back into the block in its tight location (think doinking the tip). Working on a small board was the least of my issues with the 240, though I'd still prefer a larger board with it and longer knives.

I'm quite good (actually, exceptionally good) with my hands, and that includes using knives. As a child, I learned how to butcher in my grandfathers slaughter house and butcher shop. Also, as a child I learned to fillet fish in the fish-market of Bergen, Norway. I'm pretty handy with any sized knife you care to give me. I just find no need on a daily basis for anything beyond 210mm, and we do eat a LOT of produce. My wife does all her prep with a 6" Chefs knife. She's a rocker cutter, which is not my go-to cutting method, hence my preference for more traditional Japanese shaped blades with big flat spots.

Recently, in order to clear up more counter space, I put away my Moccmaster and electric grinder and switched to a French Press with hand-grinder. It happily resulted in more counter space, and less coffee intake

Our compact kitchen -

View attachment 290363

View attachment 290364

Beautiful kitchen.

 

[bradmacmt]

Beautiful kitchen.

Kind of you to say. Doing it over today, I'd have more open upper shelving and use a magnetic strip to store knives. I'd also use lighter counter tops. But I've never designed or built a home that I wouldn't change some things about.

 

[SwampDonkey]

In your first post you say "you must either be living in a trailer or doing something wrong." In the world I inhabit, besides being condescending, it's very black and white thinking. But perhaps black and white thinking is common in the Netherlands? Dunno, the Netherlands is one of the few European countries I've not been to or lived in. Most of us mortals arrive at our choices through our own personal experiences and preferences, and our reasons are generally far more complicated and nuanced.

I designed and built my home (I'm an artist, designer, and builder). I'm also a backpacker/climber and more than a bit of a minimalist, so while I build big, expensive homes for clients, with large and elaborate kitchens (often with a butlers pantry), for my own homes I take a "less is more," "ounces make pounds" approach, which is in keeping with my own world view.

I designed my current (galley-style) kitchen (now over 10 years old) with compactness and efficiency in mind. Since I often work side by side with my wife, I feel more comfortable with a smaller knife (I hardly ever use anything larger than a 180mm knife). Shorter knives in a compact kitchen feel more natural to me, and as a non-animal eater, I've not found the need for anything longer than 210 day to day. And when/if I do, I need something a lot larger than 240mm. Our sink is small, and I always felt uneasy cleaning a 240 in the sink, or putting it back into the block in its tight location (think doinking the tip). Working on a small board was the least of my issues with the 240, though I'd still prefer a larger board with it and longer knives.

I'm quite good (actually, exceptionally good) with my hands, and that includes using knives. As a child, I learned how to butcher in my grandfathers slaughter house and butcher shop. Also, as a child I learned to fillet fish in the fish-market of Bergen, Norway. I'm pretty handy with any sized knife you care to give me. I just find no need on a daily basis for anything beyond 210mm, and we do eat a LOT of produce. My wife does all her prep with a 6" Chefs knife. She's a rocker cutter, which is not my go-to cutting method, hence my preference for more traditional Japanese shaped blades with big flat spots.

Recently, in order to clear up more counter space, I put away my Moccmaster and electric grinder and switched to a French Press with hand-grinder. It happily resulted in more counter space, and less coffee intake

Our compact kitchen -

View attachment 290363

View attachment 290364

Bigger kitchen than I have. Looks nice, also looks big enough to leave a monster cutting board that replaces one counter chunk

Mine makes a 256 mm knife look pedestrian.

 

[bradmacmt]

Yeah, I'd love to leave out a large block - my wife will have none of it lol.

 

[Jovidah]

In your first post you say "you must either be living in a trailer or doing something wrong." In the world I inhabit, besides being condescending, it's very black and white thinking. But perhaps black and white thinking is common in the Netherlands? Dunno, the Netherlands is one of the few European countries I've not been to or lived in. Most of us mortals arrive at our choices through our own personal experiences and preferences, and our reasons are generally far more complicated and nuanced.

I designed and built my home (I'm an artist, designer, and builder). I'm also a backpacker/climber and more than a bit of a minimalist, so while I build big, expensive homes for clients, with large and elaborate kitchens (often with a butlers pantry), for my own homes I take a "less is more," "ounces make pounds" approach, which is in keeping with my own world view.

I designed my current (galley-style) kitchen (now over 10 years old) with compactness and efficiency in mind. Since I often work side by side with my wife, I feel more comfortable with a smaller knife (I hardly ever use anything larger than a 180mm knife). Shorter knives in a compact kitchen feel more natural to me, and as a non-animal eater, I've not found the need for anything longer than 210 day to day. And when/if I do, I need something a lot larger than 240mm. Our sink is small, and I always felt uneasy cleaning a 240 in the sink, or putting it back into the block in its tight location (think doinking the tip). Working on a small board was the least of my issues with the 240, though I'd still prefer a larger board with it and longer knives.

I'm quite good (actually, exceptionally good) with my hands, and that includes using knives. As a child, I learned how to butcher in my grandfathers slaughter house and butcher shop. Also, as a child I learned to fillet fish in the fish-market of Bergen, Norway. I'm pretty handy with any sized knife you care to give me. I just find no need on a daily basis for anything beyond 210mm, and we do eat a LOT of produce. My wife does all her prep with a 6" Chefs knife. She's a rocker cutter, which is not my go-to cutting method, hence my preference for more traditional Japanese shaped blades with big flat spots.

Recently, in order to clear up more counter space, I put away my Moccmaster and electric grinder and switched to a French Press with hand-grinder. It happily resulted in more counter space, and less coffee intake

Our compact kitchen -

View attachment 290363

View attachment 290364

I hate to keep going because you'll might take it the wrong way but... you're kinda making my point. Because if that's a 'compact kitchen' we clearly live in different universes. I was a climber too but this is not what I would describe as minimalist. You have more countertop and cabinet space than my previous 2 appartments combined, and your largest sink looks twice the size of my current one. You actually can swing around katanas in there if you wanted to.

I don't have a problem with you 'preferring' smaller knives for whatever reason you want, but to say that it's because you're constrained by your kitchen is just mindboggling to me. The size of your kitchen is one that many people living in city appartments can only dream of. There's restaurants with smaller kitchens than this.

Personally I would move the oven and few appliances to the left of the stove somewhere else so you get a decent sized prep space right next to your stove, but other than that I can only describe this as luxurious.
I second Swampdonkey's suggestion that if you ever want to make an easy upgrade, I'd consider getting a larger board even if you stick to your current knives. Somehow it always made me work more efficient and less cramped when I sized up, regardless of what size of knife I used on it.

 

[bradmacmt]

In the USA, that is not a large kitchen. It's quite average/small. You should see the kitchens in the homes I build... 3-4 times this size.

 

[Jovidah]

Kind of you to say. Doing it over today, I'd have more open upper shelving and use a magnetic strip to store knives. I'd also use lighter counter tops. But I've never designed or built a home that I wouldn't change some things about.

I think if it was my kitchen - knowing what I know today - I'd have opted for 1 large sink instead of the double sink, and I would have kept the bar the same height as the rest of the countertop, so you basically get a large peninsula instead of the elevated bar.

I can see your desire for more upper shelving for aesthethical - and sometimes practical reasons (faster to access), but there's plenty of tradeoffs there too (stuff gets dirtier, you have to curate what and how you put stuff in there or it'll look messy)... so I don't think you necessarily made a bad choice there. Plenty of people who went for open shelving ended up regretting it. I like having some of it (far away from the stove) but I wouldn't want it all over the place.

For knife storage I think it's hard to fit in a magnet considering how you're kinda short on wall space. I'm actually in that same situation... With your amount of drawers I'd probably devote 1 or 2 to knife storage. I've done the whole 'magnet stands' and knife blocks on the countertop and on my island thing but it's not particularly ideal either.

 

[Jovidah]

In the USA, that is not a large kitchen. It's quite average/small. You should see the kitchens in the homes I build... 3-4 times this size.

That just means US kitchens are excessively large, not that yours is small. I think even in the US standards vary though? Whenever I see appartment tours / interior design stuff about small appartments in the big cities really small kitchens seem the norm. To Dutch / European standards yours is definitly above average.

The standard 'social housing' setup - that you'll see in a lot of appartments - is basically a 3x60cm cabinet setup with sink in the middle cabinet (that's 3x23,6 inches). Worst case scenario cooktop has to go on top of that.
Although I'm incredibly blessed that I live in one of the few cheap social housing appartments that has an open kitchen / living room that's large enough that I could just massively expand upon that.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

In your first post you say "you must either be living in a trailer or doing something wrong." In the world I inhabit, besides being condescending, it's very black and white thinking. But perhaps black and white thinking is common in the Netherlands? Dunno, the Netherlands is one of the few European countries I've not been to or lived in. Most of us mortals arrive at our choices through our own personal experiences and preferences, and our reasons are generally far more complicated and nuanced.

...

Our compact kitchen -

View attachment 290363

View attachment 290364

I live in a house but it's an old one and the kitchen is quite small. For perspective, if you cut off the long counter with the bar and then terminate at the edge of your stove, that's basically my kitchen. And less storage.

 

[Jovidah]

I live in a house but it's an old one and the kitchen is quite small. For perspective, if you cut off the long counter with the bar and then terminate at the edge of your stove, that's basically my kitchen. And less storage.

In my smaller kitchens I always had my 'kitchen related stuff' overflowing into my living room. So for example I had an old - but good looking - free-standing closet cabinet that I just converted into a pantry by adding shelves.
I guess now that I live a bit larger I still end up doing the same thing... open kitchen gave me the freedom to just turn half my living room into 'kitchen'.

 

[SwampDonkey]

That just means US kitchens are excessively large, not that yours is small. I think even in the US standards vary though? Whenever I see appartment tours / interior design stuff about small appartments in the big cities really small kitchens seem the norm. To Dutch / European standards yours is definitly above average.

The standard 'social housing' setup - that you'll see in a lot of appartments - is basically a 3x60cm cabinet setup with sink in the middle cabinet (that's 3x23,6 inches). Worst case scenario cooktop has to go on top of that.
Although I'm incredibly blessed that I live in one of the few cheap social housing appartments that has an open kitchen / living room that's large enough that I could just massively expand upon that.

I think economic status is blurring "normal kitchen size" too. That kitchen is still larger than most houses I've rented/lived in.

 

[ModRQC]

In your first post you say "you must either be living in a trailer or doing something wrong." In the world I inhabit, besides being condescending, it's very black and white thinking. But perhaps black and white thinking is common in the Netherlands? Dunno, the Netherlands is one of the few European countries I've not been to or lived in. Most of us mortals arrive at our choices through our own personal experiences and preferences, and our reasons are generally far more complicated and nuanced.

I designed and built my home (I'm an artist, designer, and builder). I'm also a backpacker/climber and more than a bit of a minimalist, so while I build big, expensive homes for clients, with large and elaborate kitchens (often with a butlers pantry), for my own homes I take a "less is more," "ounces make pounds" approach, which is in keeping with my own world view.

I designed my current (galley-style) kitchen (now over 10 years old) with compactness and efficiency in mind. Since I often work side by side with my wife, I feel more comfortable with a smaller knife (I hardly ever use anything larger than a 180mm knife). Shorter knives in a compact kitchen feel more natural to me, and as a non-animal eater, I've not found the need for anything longer than 210 day to day. And when/if I do, I need something a lot larger than 240mm. Our sink is small, and I always felt uneasy cleaning a 240 in the sink, or putting it back into the block in its tight location (think doinking the tip). Working on a small board was the least of my issues with the 240, though I'd still prefer a larger board with it and longer knives.

I'm quite good (actually, exceptionally good) with my hands, and that includes using knives. As a child, I learned how to butcher in my grandfathers slaughter house and butcher shop. Also, as a child I learned to fillet fish in the fish-market of Bergen, Norway. I'm pretty handy with any sized knife you care to give me. I just find no need on a daily basis for anything beyond 210mm, and we do eat a LOT of produce. My wife does all her prep with a 6" Chefs knife. She's a rocker cutter, which is not my go-to cutting method, hence my preference for more traditional Japanese shaped blades with big flat spots.

Recently, in order to clear up more counter space, I put away my Moccmaster and electric grinder and switched to a French Press with hand-grinder. It happily resulted in more counter space, and less coffee intake

Our compact kitchen -

View attachment 290363

View attachment 290364

Kitchen Aid Architect line... also shows a solid minimalist choice.

I like that you're talking about the sink, since effectively mine (various of them at various places) have typically been a cramped space to wash long knives or the bigger boards I preferred to use with them. Your actual sink is still much nicer and ergonomic than mine.

Love the kitchen.

 

[Jovidah]

I think economic status is blurring "normal kitchen size" too. That kitchen is still larger than most houses I've rented/lived in.

I think rural vs urban area also plays a big role. Rural places tend to have far more room here. The age of the building also plays a large role here. Older buildings here almost invariably have seperate rooms for the kitchen, and they're almost always very small - even when the building itself isn't. You can pretty much date a building by its floorplan.

Kitchen Aid Architect line... also shows a solid minimalist choice.

I like that you're talking about the sink, since effectively mine (various of them at various places) have typically been a cramped space to wash long knives or the bigger boards I preferred to use with them. Your actual sink is still much nicer and ergonomic than mine.

Love the kitchen.

I have a sneaking suspicion that 'sink too small' ranks highly among people's grievances about their kitchen. It certainly does for me. In too many kitchens - especially rental, sink size seems to have been a very low priority.
I never understood why double sink ever became such a popular option; if given the option I'd always go for a bigger sink instead. It's easy to create a smaller sink in a big one by just putting a tub or bucket in there, but you retain the glory of being able to properly dishwash oversized items like pans and cutting boards with ease. Double sink feels like giving up counter-top space without really getting anything significant in return.

 

[ModRQC]

I have a sneaking suspicion that 'sink too small' ranks highly among people's grievances about their kitchen. It certainly does for me. In too many kitchens - especially rental, sink size seems to have been a very low priority.
I never understood why double sink ever became such a popular option; if given the option I'd always go for a bigger sink instead. It's easy to create a smaller sink in a big one by just putting a tub or bucket in there, but you retain the glory of being able to properly dishwash oversized items like pans and cutting boards with ease. Double sink feels like giving up counter-top space without really getting anything significant in return.

I like the double sink since I use the right side to leave a bunch air drying, or to wash the veggies when there's dish water in the main. I mean, I missed it in the overcramped single sink I had in some apartment with some ex. I hate dripping racks. I'm also blessed with a large stainless steel sink in the garage - not ideal but communicating to the kitchen, and easy to keep clean. No, I don't use it for garage stuff. Half of my garage is a bit like your living room. My kitchen sink is some white enamel. Real cute, but the WORST idea for a kitchen sink and I basically hate it. Next move is to fit a double stainless one with a much wider left side instead of the half and half I got. I'll have less space to leave stuff air drying, but still usable, and I feel I'll grandly appreciate a wider main that's not in white enamel.

So yeah... where we're we... ah yes: 180-230mm for me mostly. And what's it about 1K stones? It's a useful grit and logical standalone, but hell, buy a #800 or #1200 if you can't stand the triple 0 there.

Ah, and like, this has been discussed a billion times.

 

[Rangen]

I never understood why double sink ever became such a popular option; if given the option I'd always go for a bigger sink instead. It's easy to create a smaller sink in a big one by just putting a tub or bucket in there, but you retain the glory of being able to properly dishwash oversized items like pans and cutting boards with ease. Double sink feels like giving up counter-top space without really getting anything significant in return.

Double sink is an easy choice for me.

Single sink: Wife throws forks and spoons and table knives into the sink from three feet away. Some go down the disposer and hide until they get bashed and dented by turning on the disposer. Training her not to do that is not among the available options.

Double sink: Wife throws forks and spoons and table knives into the larger side of the sink from three feet away, no problem.

Haven't ground up a utensil in years, once I learned to insist on double sinks. Also it's nice to be able to grind up trimmings even when the sink is full of stuff.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I like the double sink since I use the right side to leave a bunch air drying, or to wash the veggies when there's dish water in the main. I mean, I missed it in the overcramped single sink I had in some apartment with some ex. I hate dripping racks. I'm also blessed with a large stainless steel sink in the garage - not ideal but communicating to the kitchen, and easy to keep clean. No, I don't use it for garage stuff. Half of my garage is a bit like your living room. My kitchen sink is some white enamel. Real cute, but the WORST idea for a kitchen sink and I basically hate it. Next move is to fit a double stainless one with a much wider left side instead of the half and half I got. I'll have less space to leave stuff air drying, but still usable, and I feel I'll grandly appreciate a wider main that's not in white enamel.

So yeah... where we're we... ah yes: 180-230mm for me mostly. And what's it about 1K stones? It's a useful grit and logical standalone, but hell, buy a #800 or #1200 if you can't stand the triple 0 there.

Ah, and like, this has been discussed a billion times.

Everything about this hobby has been discussed here a billion times.

 

[bradmacmt]

I think if it was my kitchen - knowing what I know today - I'd have opted for 1 large sink instead of the double sink, and I would have kept the bar the same height as the rest of the countertop, so you basically get a large peninsula instead of the elevated bar.

I prefer the elevated bar as a visual break between the dining and kitchen, and it gives outlet space without relying on pop-up outlets. I also dislike sitting at a low bar. "Aircraft Carrier" Islands/bars are all the rage currently, but I still prefer them elevated. Also, yes, I might do just one large sink. That has become the trend, and overall, I think it's a good one, though there is something to be said for having a separate and smaller bowl with a disposal (which is what ours has). A pro kitchen has a 3-sink setup minimum.

What I would do is increase the width of the kitchen 6" and make the left side prep area 6" deeper.

As an aside, I'm a believer kitchens can be too large.

 

[Jovidah]

I like the double sink since I use the right side to leave a bunch air drying, or to wash the veggies when there's dish water in the main. I mean, I missed it in the overcramped single sink I had in some apartment with some ex. I hate dripping racks. I'm also blessed with a large stainless steel sink in the garage - not ideal but communicating to the kitchen, and easy to keep clean. No, I don't use it for garage stuff. Half of my garage is a bit like your living room. My kitchen sink is some white enamel. Real cute, but the WORST idea for a kitchen sink and I basically hate it. Next move is to fit a double stainless one with a much wider left side instead of the half and half I got. I'll have less space to leave stuff air drying, but still usable, and I feel I'll grandly appreciate a wider main that's not in white enamel.

So yeah... where we're we... ah yes: 180-230mm for me mostly. And what's it about 1K stones? It's a useful grit and logical standalone, but hell, buy a #800 or #1200 if you can't stand the triple 0 there.

Ah, and like, this has been discussed a billion times.

For drying veggies, a lot of worktop sinks come with solutions for inset colanders that would work fairly well here. ( NORRSJÖN Colander, stainless steel - IKEA ). Not really functional for dishes, but for some veggies it works. I share your loathing of dripping racks; IMO it just creates a dirty wet mess.

I've love having a second garage sink somewhere; would be nice to have a place to do the dirty jobs. Unlikely to ever happen though. If I ever won the lottery, my end-game dream setup would have seperate prep and dishwashing sinks. Although it's a bit challenging to implement that without making every cooking session a walkathon while still maintaining functional countertops.

Never had enamel sink in the kitchen, only in bathrooms - where it doesn't bother me. What are your problems with it in a kitchen setting?

Double sink is an easy choice for me.

Single sink: Wife throws forks and spoons and table knives into the sink from three feet away. Some go down the disposer and hide until they get bashed and dented by turning on the disposer. Training her not to do that is not among the available options.

Double sink: Wife throws forks and spoons and table knives into the larger side of the sink from three feet away, no problem.

Haven't ground up a utensil in years, once I learned to insist on double sinks. Also it's nice to be able to grind up trimmings even when the sink is full of stuff.

Okay you got me there, but this is an exclusively American problem. I've never seen food disposal shredders here in Europe. We just throw our garbage in the bin, with a seperate bin for all the green waste. Doesn't it clog the pipes when you're constantly working food wastes down your plumbing?

 

[SwampDonkey]

We bought our first house last year. The first change we did, and still the biggest QOL improvement to date, was swap the shallow, dumb, double sink for the biggest, deepest single one we could. Can fit my biggest Dutch oven in to "soak" (ignore) and still do other stuff without spraying the walls. Especially important since I have my mag rack above. I'm cursed with septic, so no disposal to bother with anyway.

 

[bradmacmt]

Okay you got me there, but this is an exclusively American problem. I've never seen food disposal shredders here in Europe. We just throw our garbage in the bin, with a seperate bin for all the green waste. Doesn't it clog the pipes when you're constantly working food wastes down your plumbing?

When I lived in Germany winter of 1988/89, I got used to not having a disposal and separating green waste. Here, we tend to rely on disposals and they really work well. Not only does the waste NOT clog pipes (It gets ground very fine), but if you're on a septic tank, it does help break down other (******) waste. Conventional wisdom here says not to have a disposal if you're on a septic tank, but that's utter nonsense. I install them in every home I build, and would not be without one.