Maybe I do the same. But first I have to find a good sharpener
Cheap new knives test and recommend thread
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Some interesting find when I was doing research, there’s no result for Shanzu/膳祖 cutlery on TaoBao or JD, the top 2 e-platform in China. As a cutlery brand they don’t exist, they are more likely just exporting e-commerce companies slapping labels on OEMs for customers who want exotic sounding names. But interesting searching on TianYanCha - the largest open business registry list in China- I find Shanzu is a real company, just a one that manufacture pots and pans with a drastically different logo, unlikely to have any relation with this weird thing here.
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Another one incoming, this time another Tuo, I fear only testing the lower end Tuo would makes it quite biased, so I bought a higher end one. Some of you might find it familiar, because it is the same as the Dalstrong Shogun series. I’ve seen people say Dalstrong is made by Tuo, which is technically not true, both of them are manufactured by Tuobituo -https://www.tbt-gd.com/ , an large OEM in Yangjiang which mostly does export. This one cost around the half as the Dalstrong, tho they only sale it in China, I guess to avoid competition with their client. Interestingly Dalstrong claim their knife is 62 +HRC, but Tuo only claims 60+ or - 2.
Back to the knife, it is…ok. The grind is definitely not what enthusiasts want, but it could serve most common people, and much better than the ring series, there’s a pronounced blade road which could be used for some thinning. The full belly profile could cause some discomfort but depends on person, the balance is still handle heavy. For the price there’s better knives in China and aboard, like the Dongsun and JCK Kagayaki mentioned.
Back to the knife, it is…ok. The grind is definitely not what enthusiasts want, but it could serve most common people, and much better than the ring series, there’s a pronounced blade road which could be used for some thinning. The full belly profile could cause some discomfort but depends on person, the balance is still handle heavy. For the price there’s better knives in China and aboard, like the Dongsun and JCK Kagayaki mentioned.
Another Dongsun this time, from their highest end offerings, Damascus VG steel, (no specifications but the data sheet they provide is for 10cr15CoMoV). The result is a bit disappointing tho, far from the lower tier Damascus offerings they had, the bevel and edge is quite fat, cutting experience is more like cheaper all purpose cleavers than a good slicer. I’m kind suspect there’s a really talented sharpener on their hammered Damascus gyuto line…
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Jovidah
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Or there's simply a lot of variety in quality within the series. Making it essentially a lottery what you're getting.
Likely… I will ask for another hammered Damascus as a replacement to see if that’s the case
So I got another Hezhen, this time I really want to try their powdered steel, 14Cr14MoVNb, their listed composition is basically S35VN. (Tho funnily Xinzuo listed it with different Vanadium content, tho that might just be a mistake)
The knife it self is ok, actually pretty good balance for a santoku, the ABS esque handle feels good in hand. The grind is pretty fat, I took 2 different choil shot so not to be too biased. It has a good blade road so you can thin it.
But I am still bit skeptical about the 14Cr14MoVNb thing, the factory that supposed to produce it is a small one with 4 million rmb fund, which is not alot for metal production. And kind weird only these 2 brands are using it, usually the vultures in EDC circles will sniff any winds of new steel development and take the lead. So doing what any sensible person will do, I sent it to a lab for metallograph and hardness testing... The result is very mixed... Since the blade is cladded so take the composition and hardness with grain of salt, they try to polish the blade so the test area is exposed and as flat as possible but it could still be hitting the cladding material or layers with carbon migration, but the metallograph does look bit weird.. the graph is in order of 100, 200, 500 and 1000 times of magnification, maybe someone with more qualification can analysis it... So @Troopah_Knives
The knife it self is ok, actually pretty good balance for a santoku, the ABS esque handle feels good in hand. The grind is pretty fat, I took 2 different choil shot so not to be too biased. It has a good blade road so you can thin it.
But I am still bit skeptical about the 14Cr14MoVNb thing, the factory that supposed to produce it is a small one with 4 million rmb fund, which is not alot for metal production. And kind weird only these 2 brands are using it, usually the vultures in EDC circles will sniff any winds of new steel development and take the lead. So doing what any sensible person will do, I sent it to a lab for metallograph and hardness testing... The result is very mixed... Since the blade is cladded so take the composition and hardness with grain of salt, they try to polish the blade so the test area is exposed and as flat as possible but it could still be hitting the cladding material or layers with carbon migration, but the metallograph does look bit weird.. the graph is in order of 100, 200, 500 and 1000 times of magnification, maybe someone with more qualification can analysis it... So @Troopah_Knives
Here's the compostion analysis and hardness in HV, like I said, take it with a grain of salt.
The lab will run a test again, so no conclusion yet
For what it's worth the listed composition is very similar to S35VN. The carbon balance is a bit higher so one might expect a little higher achievable hardness and a larger carbide volume. Do you know what the company used for composition analysis? If its XRF then that would definitely explain the low carbon measured. IDK about the nickel.
Why do you think it's powder steel? It's a little hard to tell without scale bars on the micrographs but it really doesn't look like a PM steel.
Overall to me it looks a lot like a non-pm version of S35VN
Thanks! They market it as a powered steel blade.
Again it's pretty hard to tell without scale bars but the carbide morphology certainly looks quite different from S35VN and other similar PM steels. Maybe they could send you a copy with scale bars attached to the image or some more info about the image so we can make scale bars.
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Here's the graphics with scales and more information attached.
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I hope the sharpener will respect the typical geometry.
Thanks! I did some measurements and the carbide size seems to suggest that it is a PM steel. But I still think the carbide structure looks quite odd compared to other PM steels. I wonder if they are using an older process.
Thank you! Could this be the result of inadequate heat treatment, too?
Hmm possibly. Long times at high temperatures could cause the carbides to coarsen but the angular nature of the carbides and the banding in the steel suggest that the issue is the "PM" process.
Thanks!
Jack_Kernel
New Member
This knife is on sale for 32$ on Aliexpress. I wonder if it's still worth buying at the moment?
drrayeye
Senior Member
I have four Xinzuo/Hezhen knives, but much more high end, and they perform very well. Two are Chinese VG10 and two are 110 layer dual core.
I believe that the Xinzuo/Hezhen brand is a very reliable brand, and even the more inexpensive knives should be great!
Not really, if you want something good just go for Dongsun hammered Damascus, slightly more expensive but a lot better
I looked at getting some branded for my store but the knives were not up to my standard. I came across the same issues as @blokey did and the wholesale price is only a few dollars less than $60.
The handles are good but I'm concerned about the origin of the timber.
drrayeye
Senior Member
There are about 80 different Xinzuo/Hezhen knives listed at Ali Baba--with an AliExpress price range from less than $10 to more than $200. Hard to generalize about the brand.
Sadly I have to agree with this, I tired both their highest end and lower end stuff, all suffers from mediocre blades. The high end “powered steel” is more like spray formed under microscope and the heat treatment seems pretty bad. ( I also sent Larrin those metallographs, he also thinks it’s more likely something spray formed than actual powder metallurgy)
Tho if you are looking for some good cleavers for sale, I have Fu Yi Dao on contact, they are a family business based in Shanghai, does really good forged cleavers in both stainless and carbon
Another Dongsun Damascus VG10, kind of hybrid santoku cleaver. Honestly very nice, the grind is thicker than the gyuto from same line but thinner than their other knife lines. The balance is much better due to the large blade. The performance in carrots and other small ingredients is able to keep up with most of my other expensive knives, tho it does got stuck in sweet potato just like their gyuto, but at this price it is impressive. I will try to work on it a bit to see how their vg10 feels.
I would never buy a Chinese damascus more expensive for mediocre knife.
I did buy two Chinese both KU hammer finish 210mm with decent handles gave away as gifts around 60.00 each. Were 90Cr18 Mov. Both sharp OOTB. Keep one a while to test cutting & sharpening the grinds about like some better Shuns. I think the stainless steel that is forged in China is pretty good.
One of knives that recom. Culinary students. Sold number of them kept one for pass around. Like Tanaka Nashiji they were eye openers compared to Mercer student kit knives. The Pro M has a nice grind, comfortable handle. Good steel & heat treatment 100.00 240mm. Used to come with wood saya at that price. Japanese Chef Knives
I did buy two Chinese both KU hammer finish 210mm with decent handles gave away as gifts around 60.00 each. Were 90Cr18 Mov. Both sharp OOTB. Keep one a while to test cutting & sharpening the grinds about like some better Shuns. I think the stainless steel that is forged in China is pretty good.
One of knives that recom. Culinary students. Sold number of them kept one for pass around. Like Tanaka Nashiji they were eye openers compared to Mercer student kit knives. The Pro M has a nice grind, comfortable handle. Good steel & heat treatment 100.00 240mm. Used to come with wood saya at that price. Japanese Chef Knives
I like Ide-san's knives (Yosimitu Kajiya), they are generally a low height as you say but I've found his aogami knives are a bit closer to 50mm.
I used a Yoshikane SKD 240mm quite a bit at work. The heel height was not tall.
This made it excellent for peeling cantaloupe, watermelon, pineapple. It also was light & nimble for speed cutting. Excellent knife between tall heel & slicer.
I prefer a lower height of blade, I like a more nimble knife and Yosimitu Kajiya knives are perfect for this. I worked in kitchens for decades and I definitely like the suji/Gyuto style.
Anything over 47/48mm feels like a knife with training wheels on.
