Monosteel western handle Gyuto discussion thread

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blokey said:
I do have this one here
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My Misono 165. If any damage occurs, it's so easily restored.
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Spine at heel 1.8,
Spine halfway 1.4
Spine 1cm from tip 0.5mm

166g
250 mmx 47.5mm

Almost like a hook grind, there's a mini shinogi, great food release, glides through food too due to thinness, not much sticking. Steel is harder, doesn't respond to bending unlike almost every other japanese monosteel I've had . Maybe harder? I had to use a chisel hammer, because the bending sticks didn't work. Feels like SK sort of thing. Had a lot of recurves when I got it

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Ended up getting a 270 kogetsu. Quite different from the 300. Shorter and thinner overall. Still plenty of convexity and could probably be thinner behind the edge but works great as is. Very very happy with it. Will see how long the sticker lasts...


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4wa1l said:
Ended up getting a 270 kogetsu. Quite different from the 300. Shorter and thinner overall. Still plenty of convexity and could probably be thinner behind the edge but works great as is. Very very happy with it. Will see how long the sticker lasts...


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The larger one makes me wonder about the curve in handle and spine. Far from uncommon. I know it from Misono, Suien and others. What's the idea?
 
Sadly not how they perform out of the box (mine certainly didn't). As mentioned in the video description he spent quite some time thinning them.
But they are definitly great 'blank slates' if you're willing to put in the time. Would go for the 240 though if you want to go down that road; the 210 and 180 have very low blade height.
 
I just wished it didn't have the ugly logo and text on it. Carbonext is more elegant in that regard.
The Hattori line is even worse; it still has the old KF forum logo on it from over a decade ago... I guess no one ever gave Koki the heads up he should take it off? But it bothers me enough to not buy the knife...

Also, I think ES is a bit of a misnomer? Basically what they do is put a steeper bevel on it, so the main result isn't so much that it has a better edge but that it's somewhat thinner behind the edge.
 
Question...

In terms of thinning and blade work and what you prefer working on, how do you stack up mono SK to shirogami to aogami to stainless?

Not concerned with aesthetics or rehabilitating looks after work. Just performance focused stuff.
 
HumbleHomeCook said:
Question...

In terms of thinning and blade work and what you prefer working on, how do you stack up mono SK to shirogami to aogami to stainless?

Not concerned with aesthetics or rehabilitating looks after work. Just performance focused stuff.
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It's essentially about abrasion resistance. The usual suspects, with large chromium carbides, are little fun: Krupp's 4116, Chromova by Global, soft stainless cladding. Not only slow, but loading your stone, and a gummy feeling.
Good VG-10 is quite abrasion resistant. But not unpleasant. Start coarse.
As for the carbons, the differences are very small. Aogami Super may take a bit more time than others. Take a coarser stone to start with. Can't say I've ever noticed much difference between a C60 Sab @56Rc and an Aogami#2 @62Rc.
Stainless with small carbides, AEB-L, 14C28N aren't very different from carbons in this respect. With a poor HT AEB-L may feel gummy as well.
As you see, it's not that different from what you experience when sharpening.
 
Benuser said:
It's essentially about abrasion resistance. The usual suspects, with large chromium carbides, are little fun: Krupp's 4116, Chromova by Global, soft stainless cladding. Not only slow, but loading your stone, and a gummy feeling.
Good VG-10 is quite abrasion resistant. But not unpleasant. Start coarse.
As for the carbons, the differences are very small. Aogami Super may take a bit more time than others. Take a coarser stone to start with. Can't say I've ever noticed much difference between a C60 Sab @56Rc and an Aogami#2 @62Rc.
Stainless with small carbides, AEB-L, 14C28N aren't very different from carbons in this respect. With a poor HT AEB-L may feel gummy as well.
As you see, it's not that different from what you experience when sharpening.
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Thanks buddy that's about what I figured. Some of those mono shirogami's and aogami's are enticing.

Like this one from @JBroida: https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/gyuto/products/suien-vc-210mm-gyuto
 
Benuser said:
The main advantage of the ES is in showing how to sharpen a strongly asymmetric blade.
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Man, this is 1000% accurate!

I just colored my bevels and did some light work on the BBW and was shocked at the angles! I guessed the right side would be low but I had no idea just how low. Maybe around 5 or 6 degrees. The left is probably in the 10-12ish range.

The ES option really gives a good educational visual.
 
Benuser said:
I have its larger brother, the 240, and it's a favourite. Came from Japan though, with a chisel grind edge. Changed it in a more common one, and did some thinning. No problem at all. If you order with JKI I guess you get it sharpened.
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Not my thinnest, and there's some upswing at the heel. A great performer.
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Okay Team Yo, I'm smitten with my western santoku. The feel is quite different but there is no denying the cutting performance. I'm going to want more! And I know this a gyuto thread so I'm hoping you folks can help advise me a 210.

I like lasery performance and would prefer something pretty well set OOTB and not requiring a couple hours to get it going. I do like that asymmetric grind.

As much as I like JCK Basic santoku, the 210 gyuto is only 40mm tall. I don't need a lot of height but that is getting down to suji levels.

Here's some of the ones I've been looking at:

https://aframestokyo.com/collection...nife-210mm-mbs-26-stainless-steel-blade-knife

https://www.hocho-knife.com/sugimoto-all-steel-chef-knife-gyuto-210mm/

https://honmamon-japan.com/products...an-by-yoshito-yamakawa?variant=39617946779717

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/gyuto/products/suien-vc-210mm-gyuto

And this 180 gyuto. I don't mind shorter knives at all.

https://bernalcutlery.com/collectio...imojiya-okd-180mm-gyuto-vg-1-tagayasan-handle


Thoughts? Others I should look at?

I have to say, at least the idea of a mono aogami 2 is pretty interesting.
 
The only other mono aogami 2 I know is the Sakai Takayuki Aoniki and it always got mediocre reviews (mostly because it was quite thick behind the edge), so if that's what you're looking for I'd lean towards the Suien.

Blade height on 210s is an issue on a lot of the yo-gyutos, especially from Seki, they're often in that 43-45 mm range. I don't mind it but I can understnad it's not everyone's cup of tea.

I'd at least consider a 240 Carbonext, because IMO it has a nice sweetspot of specs... though just like others in this price range it benefits from doing some work behind the edge. If you want an awesome performer out of the box you're pretty much ending up with a Ginga... though again due to blade height the 240 is probably what you'd want to go for.

No experience with any of hte others you picked.
 
Jovidah said:
The only other mono aogami 2 I know is the Sakai Takayuki Aoniki and it always got mediocre reviews (mostly because it was quite thick behind the edge), so if that's what you're looking for I'd lean towards the Suien.

Blade height on 210s is an issue on a lot of the yo-gyutos, especially from Seki, they're often in that 43-45 mm range. I don't mind it but I can understnad it's not everyone's cup of tea.

I'd at least consider a 240 Carbonext, because IMO it has a nice sweetspot of specs... though just like others in this price range it benefits from doing some work behind the edge. If you want an awesome performer out of the box you're pretty much ending up with a Ginga... though again due to blade height the 240 is probably what you'd want to go for.

No experience with any of hte others you picked.
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Thank you.

I'd be okay with 43-45 but 40 is getting down there. But maybe I just need to use my suji for some prep work and see what I think. It's around 35 so a little more extreme but should give me a feel.

Thick BTE is my concern. Maybe I should email @JBroida about the Suien...

No 240's. I max out at 210 and most of my routine use knives are under 200. :)
 
HumbleHomeCook said:
Thoughts? Others I should look at?
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Not quite sure what your goals are but I fell in love with my Kanehide Bessaku (265mm but feels more like 220mm) and was considering getting the 210mm because the (semi-stainless) steel and performance is so nice. (lasery and thus a bit sticky) Easy to sharpen and gets wicked sharp.
210mm is only available in the Tk series. I believe Stringer has mentioned these more than once (Tk series) and has used them at work. The price is nice too.
 
jaydee said:
Not quite sure what your goals are but I fell in love with my Kanehide Bessaku (265mm but feels more like 220mm) and was considering getting the 210mm because the (semi-stainless) steel and performance is so nice. (lasery and thus a bit sticky) Easy to sharpen and gets wicked sharp.
210mm is only available in the Tk series. I believe Stringer has mentioned these more than once (Tk series) and has used them at work. The price is nice too.
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I can accept some stiction for the trade off of lasery performance. I know there's a lot of love for the Kanehide series and appreciate the recommendation. I need to add it to my consideration list!
 
HumbleHomeCook said:
I can accept some stiction for the trade off of lasery performance.
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Yeah, small price to pay, me thinks as well. Only sometimes annoying on carrots and similar but the rest of the stuff is soo easily cut with a big smile. Makes my workhorse gyuto feel big, fat & clumsy.

If in doubt ask Stringer if you have specific questions.
 
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