Helmore
Well-Known Member
Hey folks,
I recently bought a Tojiro Shirogami Nakiri to get a feel for and learn to take care of a Japanese carbon knife. Now I know this knife isn't exactly high end, but I thought it was a nice way to see if it was something for me. All I currently have are some stainless steel knives I got after saving some 'points' at the local supermarket (most of the Dutch members here will be familiar with the Vivo AH deal). My parents do have a really nice carbon steel Robert Herder chef's knife, which I think has a really nice blade. I never really understood why they have it though, as my mom does everything in hand with a Herder peeling knife and my dad isn't very good with knife skills either. Needless to say, that knife isn't that well taken care of, being incredibly dull, with some chipping along its edge and the handle seems a bit rough.
I currently have hardly any sharpening experience. I recently tried sharpening a Zwilling chef's knife with what I believe is this combo stone: Zwilling Twin Pro combi stone 32505-100, grit 250 / 1000
This was at my parents' place. They had the knife laying uncovered in a drawer and that stone laying around somewhere, unused. Now, I didn't really like using that stone as it was very very easy to dig into it with the knife and I'd like something slightly bigger.
That said, I did overal like the experience of sharpening a knife. It's kind of relaxing and the result can be pretty rewarding. That started my search for some sharpening stones for myself. So first I looked for the cheapest I could find that was a bit larger than the Zwilling. Then I read some more and wanted to get the King KDS 1000/6000. Reading some more I started to hesitate between the King and the Imanishi/Bester 1000/6000 combo stone. After reading some more I was almost set to pull the trigger on a Shapton Pro 1000 and a Pro 5000 set of stones.
Well anyway, you can probably see the trend. The more I read on the internet and the more I watched about it on Youtube, the more expensive my choices started to become. So now I'm here for some advice. My main problem for me is that I want to buy the perfect kit right from the start, but perfect is the enemy of good enough and I end up not deciding on anything. So here goes my long list of options (the pricing is for ordering from knivesandtools.com):
Option one:
• Naniwa Dressing Stone €9
• Naniwa Pro 800 €63
• Naniwa Holder €27
• Shapton Glass HC 4000 €44
Total: €140
Main concern, will I need anything courser or not? Mainly for the removal of some chips along the knife edge here, not for thinning.
Option two:
• Naniwa Dressing Stone €9
• Naniwa Holder €30
• Shapton Glass HR 1000 €45
• Shapton Glass HR 4000 €50
Total: €134
Again, will I need anything courser? I could switch out the Glass 1000 for the Glass 500 here. The Glass 500 would be €37, making the set €126 and it is actually in stock at knivesandtools.com. Getting both the 500 and the 1000 seems a bit redundant, but I think I'd prefer to learn on a 1000 instead of a 500.
Option three:
• Naniwa Dressing Stone €9
• Naniwa Holder €30
• Shapton Glass HR 320 €36
• Shapton Glass HR 1000 €45
• Shapton Glass HC 4000 €44
• Total: €164
Seems the most complete to me, but I'm now €30 up from option two.
For now no flattening stone. Shapton seems to wear slow enough to be able to get away with the occasional sandpaper option. Otherwise, from metal-master the Atoma 400 would be €64 or the Atoma 140 for €68.50, both assuming no import duties (which seems unlikely to be the case.) Otherwise €85 for the 400 and €90 for the 140. That would make a likely option four:
Possible option four:
• Naniwa Holder €30
• Atoma 400 €85
• Shapton Glass HR 1000 €45
• Shapton Glass HR 4000 €50
Total: €210
Could go +€5 for the Atoma 140, but the 400 seems more practical for chip removal and such minor repairs without then also needing something between the Atoma and the SG1000.
Option five (from fine-tools.com):
• Shapton Pro 1000 €43
• Shapton Pro 5000 €68
Total: €121 (that includes €10 shipping)
Here a Naniwa Dressing stone would be an extra €7, an Atoma 400 would be €77 and the 140 would be €85. So €198 for Atoma 400, SP1000 and SP5000. This set would assume that I'd use the boxes the Shaptons come is as the base to sharpen on (I'd have to improvise if sharpening on the Atoma). Using the Shapton Pro case as storage and stone holder during sharpening would make them ideal for quick touch ups. Just store them close as hand and take one out whenever you feel like it.
Or maybe I'm overthinking this all too much.
Now, before people start throwing around many more other suggestions. I live in a pretty small apartment of around 25 m² or so, which makes me go for splash and go stones. Any stone that needs more than a handful of hours to dry or needs to permasoak just becomes too much of a hassle given the limited amount of space I have to work with. Maybe years from now when I have more space, some soaking stones may become an option. For the kinds of knives, I'll see myself sharpening some simple stainless steel knives to practice on and for friends and family, but I want to get into carbon knives for myself. I really like the feel of that Herder carbon steel blade and I'm curious what a Japanese carbon steel blade will be like. Somewhere in the future I'd like to purchase something like a Kaeru Kasumi White Gyuto 210mm or a Shiro Kamo 210 mm Gyuto (I'll look into that later).
Now a question: How big is the difference between the Shapton Glass HR or HC 4000? Especially when you start using it on different sorts of steel? They'll both do carbon steel well presumably, but what if I may end up with an SG-2/R-2 steel blade for example? I don't really see myself using anything higher than a 1000 grit on a stainless steel knife, so wouldn't care much about what it's like for that.
Back to the options I listed, my preference would be for option 2, with the SG1000 and SG4000 HR. As I said, not sure about going for the SG500 over the SG1000 here. Going for the SG500 would give me an easier time with heavier repairs, but those may not happen that often (hopefully, though given the way knives are treated at my parents' place, who knows). Learning on an SG1000 instead of an SG500 seems more ideal as well though. This consideration would make option three seem much more well rounded, but I'm not sure of the extra 30 euros is worth it for me as of now. That's the same reason why any of the sets with one of the Atoma's just isn't for me, way too expensive for my use case. I bought a €45 knife, to then use €200 in sharpening tools seems a bit odd to me. Maybe I should just get a Naniwa Nagura, Naniwa Pro 800 and Naniwa holder for €96 total and call it a day. Ugh. So hard to choose.
Wow. That turned into a really really long post. Hopefully it's not too long. Also, it may be helpful if there was also some kind of questionnaire such as in the knife section. For that reason, ask away on anything I may not have covered.
I'm mainly interested in hearing your opinions on what set to choose and why you'd recommend me that. Or maybe you can offer an alternative option. Readily available shops for me would be knivesandtools.com, fine-tools.com and dictum.de. Anyway, thanks for any and all advice you may have.
I recently bought a Tojiro Shirogami Nakiri to get a feel for and learn to take care of a Japanese carbon knife. Now I know this knife isn't exactly high end, but I thought it was a nice way to see if it was something for me. All I currently have are some stainless steel knives I got after saving some 'points' at the local supermarket (most of the Dutch members here will be familiar with the Vivo AH deal). My parents do have a really nice carbon steel Robert Herder chef's knife, which I think has a really nice blade. I never really understood why they have it though, as my mom does everything in hand with a Herder peeling knife and my dad isn't very good with knife skills either. Needless to say, that knife isn't that well taken care of, being incredibly dull, with some chipping along its edge and the handle seems a bit rough.
I currently have hardly any sharpening experience. I recently tried sharpening a Zwilling chef's knife with what I believe is this combo stone: Zwilling Twin Pro combi stone 32505-100, grit 250 / 1000
This was at my parents' place. They had the knife laying uncovered in a drawer and that stone laying around somewhere, unused. Now, I didn't really like using that stone as it was very very easy to dig into it with the knife and I'd like something slightly bigger.
That said, I did overal like the experience of sharpening a knife. It's kind of relaxing and the result can be pretty rewarding. That started my search for some sharpening stones for myself. So first I looked for the cheapest I could find that was a bit larger than the Zwilling. Then I read some more and wanted to get the King KDS 1000/6000. Reading some more I started to hesitate between the King and the Imanishi/Bester 1000/6000 combo stone. After reading some more I was almost set to pull the trigger on a Shapton Pro 1000 and a Pro 5000 set of stones.
Well anyway, you can probably see the trend. The more I read on the internet and the more I watched about it on Youtube, the more expensive my choices started to become. So now I'm here for some advice. My main problem for me is that I want to buy the perfect kit right from the start, but perfect is the enemy of good enough and I end up not deciding on anything. So here goes my long list of options (the pricing is for ordering from knivesandtools.com):
Option one:
• Naniwa Dressing Stone €9
• Naniwa Pro 800 €63
• Naniwa Holder €27
• Shapton Glass HC 4000 €44
Total: €140
Main concern, will I need anything courser or not? Mainly for the removal of some chips along the knife edge here, not for thinning.
Option two:
• Naniwa Dressing Stone €9
• Naniwa Holder €30
• Shapton Glass HR 1000 €45
• Shapton Glass HR 4000 €50
Total: €134
Again, will I need anything courser? I could switch out the Glass 1000 for the Glass 500 here. The Glass 500 would be €37, making the set €126 and it is actually in stock at knivesandtools.com. Getting both the 500 and the 1000 seems a bit redundant, but I think I'd prefer to learn on a 1000 instead of a 500.
Option three:
• Naniwa Dressing Stone €9
• Naniwa Holder €30
• Shapton Glass HR 320 €36
• Shapton Glass HR 1000 €45
• Shapton Glass HC 4000 €44
• Total: €164
Seems the most complete to me, but I'm now €30 up from option two.
For now no flattening stone. Shapton seems to wear slow enough to be able to get away with the occasional sandpaper option. Otherwise, from metal-master the Atoma 400 would be €64 or the Atoma 140 for €68.50, both assuming no import duties (which seems unlikely to be the case.) Otherwise €85 for the 400 and €90 for the 140. That would make a likely option four:
Possible option four:
• Naniwa Holder €30
• Atoma 400 €85
• Shapton Glass HR 1000 €45
• Shapton Glass HR 4000 €50
Total: €210
Could go +€5 for the Atoma 140, but the 400 seems more practical for chip removal and such minor repairs without then also needing something between the Atoma and the SG1000.
Option five (from fine-tools.com):
• Shapton Pro 1000 €43
• Shapton Pro 5000 €68
Total: €121 (that includes €10 shipping)
Here a Naniwa Dressing stone would be an extra €7, an Atoma 400 would be €77 and the 140 would be €85. So €198 for Atoma 400, SP1000 and SP5000. This set would assume that I'd use the boxes the Shaptons come is as the base to sharpen on (I'd have to improvise if sharpening on the Atoma). Using the Shapton Pro case as storage and stone holder during sharpening would make them ideal for quick touch ups. Just store them close as hand and take one out whenever you feel like it.
Or maybe I'm overthinking this all too much.
Now, before people start throwing around many more other suggestions. I live in a pretty small apartment of around 25 m² or so, which makes me go for splash and go stones. Any stone that needs more than a handful of hours to dry or needs to permasoak just becomes too much of a hassle given the limited amount of space I have to work with. Maybe years from now when I have more space, some soaking stones may become an option. For the kinds of knives, I'll see myself sharpening some simple stainless steel knives to practice on and for friends and family, but I want to get into carbon knives for myself. I really like the feel of that Herder carbon steel blade and I'm curious what a Japanese carbon steel blade will be like. Somewhere in the future I'd like to purchase something like a Kaeru Kasumi White Gyuto 210mm or a Shiro Kamo 210 mm Gyuto (I'll look into that later).
Now a question: How big is the difference between the Shapton Glass HR or HC 4000? Especially when you start using it on different sorts of steel? They'll both do carbon steel well presumably, but what if I may end up with an SG-2/R-2 steel blade for example? I don't really see myself using anything higher than a 1000 grit on a stainless steel knife, so wouldn't care much about what it's like for that.
Back to the options I listed, my preference would be for option 2, with the SG1000 and SG4000 HR. As I said, not sure about going for the SG500 over the SG1000 here. Going for the SG500 would give me an easier time with heavier repairs, but those may not happen that often (hopefully, though given the way knives are treated at my parents' place, who knows). Learning on an SG1000 instead of an SG500 seems more ideal as well though. This consideration would make option three seem much more well rounded, but I'm not sure of the extra 30 euros is worth it for me as of now. That's the same reason why any of the sets with one of the Atoma's just isn't for me, way too expensive for my use case. I bought a €45 knife, to then use €200 in sharpening tools seems a bit odd to me. Maybe I should just get a Naniwa Nagura, Naniwa Pro 800 and Naniwa holder for €96 total and call it a day. Ugh. So hard to choose.
Wow. That turned into a really really long post. Hopefully it's not too long. Also, it may be helpful if there was also some kind of questionnaire such as in the knife section. For that reason, ask away on anything I may not have covered.
I'm mainly interested in hearing your opinions on what set to choose and why you'd recommend me that. Or maybe you can offer an alternative option. Readily available shops for me would be knivesandtools.com, fine-tools.com and dictum.de. Anyway, thanks for any and all advice you may have.