- Joined
- Oct 18, 2012
- Messages
- 384
- Reaction score
- 166
Yes that track looks more like Indy or Formula-E. It's almost like they designed the track to ensure that next weekend will even more explosive between Max and Lewis.
Any F1 fans here?
- Thread starter Bart.s
- Start date
Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:
What happens, though, if Hammy takes fastest lap and they both crash out? Does he keep that point?
If I were Verstappen, given the advantages in speed the Merc cars obviously have at the moment combined with his win advantage, I'd take Hamilton out in the first corner à la Schumi. And I can't imagine that Verstappen isn't already considering this.
If I were Verstappen, given the advantages in speed the Merc cars obviously have at the moment combined with his win advantage, I'd take Hamilton out in the first corner à la Schumi. And I can't imagine that Verstappen isn't already considering this.
They didn't design the track - they just counted the piles and piles of money SA paid to hold the grand prix. Hence an obviously dangerous track and race.
Bobby2shots
Senior Member
Yes, good point; I believe he would keep that fastest-lap point.
That said, Max has already tried taking Hamilton out,,,, on multiple occasions,,, and Masi has done nothing about it.. Max brake-tested Lewis, and what did he get in return???,,,, a ten second penalty, which was absolutely meaningless in terms of points , nor finishing position. The stewards investigation showed that Max pulled 2.4G's on his brake-test, and Max said after the race, "I don't know what happened there". So, Max has added "liar" to his growing list of "talents".
Don't get me wrong here,,, I want Max to win races,,, lots of them,,,,, it's great for the sport,,,,, but, I want him to win on merit,,, not thuggery.
I believe Masi carries much of the blame here, by letting things get wayyyy out of hand. Someone said after the race, "Formula-1 misses Charlie Whiting right about now".
Bobby2shots
Senior Member
Agreed 100% about Masi.
Mind you, if both cars are taken out,,,, Mercedes wins the Constructors' title. They currently lead by 28 points. Even if Checo were to take the win, and Valtteri DNF's, Mercedes still wins the Constructors' title, and that's worth over $35 million. Horner would not be very happy with Max.
I can't argue with some of that - Max, as Hamilton says, pushes and goes beyond the limits sometimes.
On the specific case of the braking-induced impact, there, RB instructed Max to let Hamilton go by (Max's tires were shot and there was no way he was going to hold the lead). It had apparently been communicated to Merc, but Hamilton either didn't get the message or it wasn't sent, so Max braking was a "surprise" to Lewis. That's actually the one place I don't think the stewards should have acted. Max giving back the place for hopping the kerb... that's fair, and by the book, though still stupid to me - hopping the kerb / agressively cutting the apex was always legal back in the day (I've been watching F1 since 80) and racing never suffered for it. If you are willing to risk damage to your own car only for an edge, freaking go for it in my book.
I don't think that Max has actually tried to take Hamilton out as much as used somewhat questionable / agressive tactics to gain or hold position. I'm talking about a full-on Schumi move of just instantly crashing out your opponent in the title chase on the first lap. It's an entirely viable, if a bit dirty, way to win a championship, but it's existed as long as racing has. In the modern race game, they'd probably do some chicanery to give the title to the "victim" of the move, despite the absence of any rule justifying said action.
OTOH, they should never, ever have a GP at Jeddah again. God, what a disaster is that track.
Keith Sinclair
Senior Member
Max is a skilled driver even if got penalty for going off track in one of his passes. They gave him driver of the day. He made those medium tires last almost the whole race although it might have been a detriment final laps.
Everything on the line final Abu Dhabi won't be boring.
Everything on the line final Abu Dhabi won't be boring.
Bobby2shots
Senior Member
They'll probably modify a few corners next year, in order to increase down-the-track ,,, or, around-the-bend visibility. At the very least, they'd have to upgrade the early-warning lights located before the most dangerous bends, especially the hi-speed "S" bends in sector 2. It's a miracle that there were no major pile-ups.
Yeah, they DID have a major disaster in the F2 race. I hope they straighten it out. Unfortunately, I think a briefcase of cash from the Saudi organizers is what's going to be done.
Nicely said! We could say more about Max, but let's stay polite.
Karma at the end catches everybody.
Bobby2shots
Senior Member
Update;
No,,,,only cars that finish in the top 10 qualify for the Fastest Lap Award.
Keith Sinclair
Senior Member
I wouldn't even want to see all the rules & regulations in modern F1 it must be pages long. Like when Max got penalized for passing using side area not considered track. The cars
are wider & longer than older grand prix racers.
Esp. on that track last week that had long fast straights going into tight turns just let them race.
are wider & longer than older grand prix racers.
Esp. on that track last week that had long fast straights going into tight turns just let them race.
Yeah, the whole "respect white lines" thing in modern racing is kind of crazy to me. It's gonna sound pretty boomer, but "back in my day" you drove pretty much where you wanted to drive. Wanna cut the apex by 10 feet? Go for it. You are driving over kerbs or through "non maintained surfaces" that might damage the car or blow a tire, but you are a big person, you can choose that risk.
And it's not "pages" long except if you put the "thousands of" before "pages." It's long.
Thanks for the update. I also went back and checked and found that, but forgot to come in with the update.
Max was lightning fast in quals today, but did it on softer rubber than Lewis, thus Max has to start on softs tomorrow as well. Which means he's highly likely to keep the lead at the start, but he's going to have to pit earlier.
Strategy idea! AlphaTauri driver (or the spectacularly worthless Perez, who should top out at "AlphaTauri driver" level) smashes out around lap 20 or so, causing a red, Max can re-tire in the pits. I don't want this to happen, but it would be funny if it did.
Bobby2shots
Senior Member
Mercedes sucks at tire strategy,,,, they go in with a "plan",,, but as soon as someone undercuts them, they panic, and throw their original strategy out the window. Lewis is easy on his tires, and quite often the call to "box,box,box" goes against what Lewis wants,,, or needs.
Red Bull seems to be running an extremely low downforce set-up, and in the past, that has not worked out so well for them because of increased tire degradation. Should be interesting to see the different strategies play out.
If Lewis and Max make it around turn-1 intact, Lewis will be hard pressed to keep within DRS range by lap 3 when DRS becomes available.
Max will definitely have to pit by lap 18 at the very latest, but his new set of hard tires should be shot by the final lap (58 lap race). If Lewis pits before lap 23, I'll be surprised, and Max will probably win. That said, Mercedes can "turn up" the engine a notch or two if they're behind in the later stages of the race. They'd have nothing to lose at that point.
Mercedes leads the Constructors' Championship by 28 points; they need 17 more points to clinch that title.
In the Drivers' Championship, the DHL Fastest Lap award will be meaningless. Both cars would have to finish P9 and P10 for a potential "tie" in points, but only if,,, P10 takes Fastest Lap, then the driver with the highest number of wins would determine who'd be awarded the Championship.
Red Bull seems to be running an extremely low downforce set-up, and in the past, that has not worked out so well for them because of increased tire degradation. Should be interesting to see the different strategies play out.
If Lewis and Max make it around turn-1 intact, Lewis will be hard pressed to keep within DRS range by lap 3 when DRS becomes available.
Max will definitely have to pit by lap 18 at the very latest, but his new set of hard tires should be shot by the final lap (58 lap race). If Lewis pits before lap 23, I'll be surprised, and Max will probably win. That said, Mercedes can "turn up" the engine a notch or two if they're behind in the later stages of the race. They'd have nothing to lose at that point.
Mercedes leads the Constructors' Championship by 28 points; they need 17 more points to clinch that title.
In the Drivers' Championship, the DHL Fastest Lap award will be meaningless. Both cars would have to finish P9 and P10 for a potential "tie" in points, but only if,,, P10 takes Fastest Lap, then the driver with the highest number of wins would determine who'd be awarded the Championship.
Last edited:
Bart.s
Well-Known Member
Yes
Bart.s
Well-Known Member
YESSS
Understatement. YYESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Bart.s
Well-Known Member
F******G YESSSS
Bart.s
Well-Known Member
What a race!!!!!
Bart.s
Well-Known Member
10 years of my life
Bart.s
Well-Known Member
What a race! RB didn't win on speed, but on brilliant strategy. 
to RB!!
to RB!!Bart.s
Well-Known Member
It was a pretty amazing race and season. From the controversy in lap 1 (If Max had to give the lead back last week, Lewis definitely did this week) to the generally bad communication leading to conspiracy theories among Hamilton fans for the crazy ending, it was dramatic as hell. It's pretty sad that it had to come down to that - it would have been better to watch Max come back on Lewis using fresh rubber for 6 laps rather than having 5 laps of safety car - but this did give us probably the most exciting and dramatic final lap of the season in F1 history.
Keith Sinclair
Senior Member
Shouldn't look at KKF before watch the race.
Looking forward to watching it.
Looking forward to watching it.
Corradobrit1
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 2, 2015
- Messages
- 6,855
- Reaction score
- 6,910
Merc has taken a lawyer into a meeting with the Race Director. This has still got legs.
WiriWiri
Senior Member
Ach well, congrats to Verstappen on clinching his first title. Been an exciting season
Farcical ending mind. I can understand the want to have a racing finish, but everything was so garbled and unclear at the end that you can’t blame Mercedes for being aggrieved
Hamilton‘s a better man and more gracious in defeat that I’ll ever be for sure. If I’d led the race throughout, driven beautifully, overcome a spirit Perez resistance (and the uselessness of his own teammate) and unquestionably been the fastest man I’d have been spitting feathers at such an arbitrary and farcical end, An end that wiped out his carefully accumulated advantage and put his rival right next to him, only with much fresher tires and an inevitable income. Short of attaching a comedy sized Acme anvil to the back of Hamilton’s car and asking a passing Death Star to gift wrap and tractor beam Verstappen into the lead the end couldn’t have been more manufactured.
Luck eh. But also a competition with some dubious integrity issues and something to clearly sort out. Congrats Verstappen regardless - it was a genuinely thrilling season, even if the end needed some script work
Farcical ending mind. I can understand the want to have a racing finish, but everything was so garbled and unclear at the end that you can’t blame Mercedes for being aggrieved
Hamilton‘s a better man and more gracious in defeat that I’ll ever be for sure. If I’d led the race throughout, driven beautifully, overcome a spirit Perez resistance (and the uselessness of his own teammate) and unquestionably been the fastest man I’d have been spitting feathers at such an arbitrary and farcical end, An end that wiped out his carefully accumulated advantage and put his rival right next to him, only with much fresher tires and an inevitable income. Short of attaching a comedy sized Acme anvil to the back of Hamilton’s car and asking a passing Death Star to gift wrap and tractor beam Verstappen into the lead the end couldn’t have been more manufactured.
Luck eh. But also a competition with some dubious integrity issues and something to clearly sort out. Congrats Verstappen regardless - it was a genuinely thrilling season, even if the end needed some script work
Nah, it doesn't. Protest 2 refused as well. That isn't going anywhere. In any case, the only argument would be that they should have passed the other three lapped racers in front as well, but there was no competitive reason to do that, and only risks of further incidents if they did.
The things that would have been better are:
1. Faster decision making.
2. Better communication.
But Masi isn't great at those things. Not that it's an easy job, but it's a job for which he's enormously well compensated.
TBF Hammy should have had to give the lead back in lap 1, when he did the exact same thing Max did last week and for which he DID have to give the place back. So it's not like he "deserved" his placement all that much in any case.
It was also the most thrilling last lap in the history of F1. If it had ended with the SC out, it would have been a terrible joke and really unsatisfying for anybody except staunch Hamilton fans (or Merc fans, but who the hell likes a racing team? Ugh. They won the constructors cup anyway.)
Did we watch the same race?
It was obvious that Hamilton wouldn’t be able to defend when the safety car ended. Last lap was
imo.It would have been thrilling to se Verstappen hunt down Hamilton and trying to pass him on the last laps, or if they would have been on equal tires for the last lap after the safety car and had a fight about it.
Sad way to end the best F1 season for a long time.
Last edited:
