Been a while since we had a Cleaver chat.

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I ordered a chopper king in white no2 small slicer.
It was a compromise because she likes to rock and my last knife was Moritaka AS bunka. She won't touch the thing, hates it in fact, which is probably why I haven't had to repair the tip. White no2 because I like to sharpen it.
 
Quick review on the new profile Chopper King "Small Slicer" VG10 from CKTG after 1week of exclusive use:

For a bit over $80 after tax, I'm overall pretty happy with this. VG10 steel holds its edge well without really needing any touch-ups during the week. The grind is nice for its price point. Very thin behind the edge, gentle convex up to the "shinogi" or basically where the sandblasting ends. The first 10mm behind the edge is similar to my CCK1303, but thicker in the middle section of the blade. The chopper king is essentially flat from the shinogi up to the spine, compared to the CCK which is either hollow ground or otherwise indented from hammering. Height at midblade is about the same around 88mm or so, but one big difference between the two is the amount of belly. The Chopper King has more pronounced belly, with about a 6mm difference between midblade and heel/tip, compared to approximately 2mm for my CCK.

The spine is interesting. It's about 4.5mm thick at the handle and tapers for the first 35mm or so down to 1.8mm and remains around that for the remainder of the blade. I think this is to allow for thickness of the tang more than anything else. There's minimal effect on grip since I tend to hold a cleaver much farther forward than other knives.

Fit and finish is OK. Everything is straight, no warps/bends or other weird stuff going on that I noticed. Spine and choil have sharp corners which will definitely benefit from some sandpaper treatment. The sandblasted shinogi does nothing for me. I don't feel like it serves any purpose but also doesn't hinder performance. Handles are a very personal thing, but I hate this kind of super fat handle (32mm dia at widest part). It feels similar to the one on my Shibazi, which was too thick to get a solid grip on the knife with my medium size hands. The wood is listed as maple. One of my favorite wood for handles so I feel like it should be decent quality. But yea, I hate the shape, so I'll either be sanding it down and reshaping, or knocking the whole thing off altogether and replacing it with a custom one.

Overall, for the price, this is a solid lightweight cleaver. Good build, nice steel. A bit on the curvy side for profile, and some minor gripes from me about handle and spine/choil. But otherwise I would not hesitate to recommend it. Oh and there's also a friggn dragon engraved on it which is by itself already worth the price.

PS. Before anyone asks, this blows the Shibazi out of the water. Not even close.


View attachment 179436


Looks pretty smart! F&F seems better than most tbh. Though I'd probably agree with you about the curvy profile - I'm less of a fan of that too.

What grip do you use btw? I've never found the normal, thick cleaver handles to be ott personally.
 
Looks pretty smart! F&F seems better than most tbh. Though I'd probably agree with you about the curvy profile - I'm less of a fan of that too.

What grip do you use btw? I've never found the normal, thick cleaver handles to be ott personally.
I generally grip with 3 fingers on the handle, middle finger butted up against the choil, and thumb index as far forward as possible.

In trying to narrow down what I like and don't like about handles, I found that it's not necessarily the shape or overall size. But one key factor for my comfort is how well my pinky finger can grip. And for a fully round handle of this diameter, it doesn't work for me. Plus, now i have an excuse to make some more custom handles which is fun.
 
Looks pretty smart! F&F seems better than most tbh. Though I'd probably agree with you about the curvy profile - I'm less of a fan of that too.

What grip do you use btw? I've never found the normal, thick cleaver handles to be ott personally.
I'm struggling with that much curve to the blade, I'm not as versatile as I thought. She loves it though.

Been wanting to try a nakiri anyway.
 


I’ve been getting more comfortable with #6 cleavers, less choppy-choppy and more “let the weight do the work” while also adjusting technique to use the belly instead of wishing for a flatter profile and/or getting a ton of accordion cuts, so I thought I’d post my thoughts on my main big 3 carbon cleavers. All have been thinned, tweaked and tested at work doing bulk prep and they all hold up very well.

Sugimoto #6: I’ve seen the Sugimoto pop up in a lot of videos of Chinese restaurants in Japan, and for good reason. It’s got the best construction of all the cleavers I’ve tried with the distal taper, rat tail tang and unique handle it has excellent balance and a strong right biased convex grind. Of the three in the video, it’s the lightest (weighs in between 420-430 grams) and feels even lighter than it’s weight in hand, the easiest one to use for an extended period without hand/wrist fatigue. Steel is “pure Japanese ore”, reported to be white 2 by many retailers, although Sugimoto doesn’t officially disclose this. Edge retention is good, comes back to life super easily. I see many restaurants where the Sugimoto is used on circular wooden chopping blocks which are basically like really soft end grain boards which likely prolongs edge life. Although pretty thin BTE, the convexity fattens it up quickly above the very edge for food release. After a touch of thinning, the balance between food release and cutting feel is probably the best of the three. If you look at the front end, it doesn’t look the thinnest, but it does horizontal cuts on an onion smoothly and vertical cuts surprisingly fast.

Cons are the F&F is pretty rough, there’s a good sized low spot in the middle of on the right side that seems pretty common with Sugimoto and the grind has some facets in it OOTB that doesn’t affect performance, but it’s annoying considering how much these are retailing for nowadays. Still, it’s the one I would choose for extended use and a must try cleaver in my book.

Togashi #6: The Togashi was purchased as a mystery cleaver off eBay for a great price due to a bunch of chips and rust spots. Original owner got it from a store in Tsukiji a few years ago. I fixed the chips and cleaned up the surface rust and got an ID on the maker. It has the same specs as this cleaver here, but about 10 grams lighter:
Hitohira Togashi White #2 Chinese Cleaver 220mm Gumi Wood Handle (#7)
Of the three, it’s the thinnest BTE, even before I fixed the chips. You can see the geometry from the cleaver in the link, it’s got nice right handed convexity and a slight S-grind above the convex that helps with food release, especially after you get a patina on the whole thing. A little heavy due to the full tang compared to the Sugimoto, but the steel is the star here. White 2 that takes a downright nasty edge and holds its bite well, similar to Munetoshi in that regard. Feels very “sandy”on the stones I’ve tried it on and you can take the refinement pretty high. Overall retention is nice, especially considering the Togashi weighs in at about 470 grams. Makes me want to try a Togashi honyaki or one of his white #1 cleavers. Could use a little more thinning higher up because I lost a little height doing the chip repairs. And the front end is prone to some microchipping due to thinness+hardness+weight, but the chips are tiny and don’t affect performance. The handle does tend to get dirty easily though, even with mineral oil application. Need to give it a deep clean and maybe a layer of lacquer or varnish or something.

Suien VC: Value wise, this thing is undefeated. $160, $170 with shipping, it hasn’t gone up in price for years and punches way above its price point quality wise, a long time forum favorite. The two big knocks against the Suien are the belly in the profile and the thickness OOTB. I think the belly looks a little worse in pictures and it can be tweaked on the stones while you’re thinning and with adjusting your technique a little. OOTB, the Suien has a horrible, obtuse chisel grind that crushes food instead of cutting it. But if you put in the work thinning, you can really get the steel to sing. The “VC” steel is reportedly Takefu V2 (unconfirmed I think, but that’s the consensus) and it takes the “stickiest” edge out of the three. Better retention than the Sugimoto and not as hard as the Togashi, although not chippy, plus it’s monosteel which feels nice hitting the board. After thinning, geometry wise, it’s close to the Togashi but slightly less convex. It’s the smoothest cutter out of the three, but I prefer the cutting feel of the Sugimoto just a bit, but I’m also a weirdo so take that how you will. More nimble than the Togashi, but not quite as maneuverable as the Sugimoto. Handle is on the slim side and has a protective glossy coating, very comfortable. Still can’t believe Suien makes a profit selling this cleaver for less than half the retail price of either of the other two, but I’m not complaining.

Now someone send me a Mazaki cleaver to try, please and thank you.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for sharing.✋ I’m currently on the market for ba Suien. But Koki said they are discontinuin cleavers because their craftsman got retired.
Bummer, I was wondering why they’ve been out of stock for so long. Did Koki mention that it’s just a single craftsman that makes the VC cleaver?
 
I have a question for you actually. How would you compare your Chopper King with them. It may be hard to compare an Aus10 with them but at least profile wise is it close to Suien? Did you do any adjustments on it in the mean time?
The Chopper King is closest to the Togashi. If you see me put the Togashi on the board right before I cut the apple with it, you can see how it kind of rolls from the front to the heel, same with the Chopper King. Flattish front end for push cutting and the weight naturally causes the cleaver to kind of roll to the heel so you’re less likely to get accordion cuts. The Suien OOTB has a more even curve the whole way through. I actually took out a little bit of the belly in the middle while I was thinning it so the transition from front to back was smoother, otherwise it was a little too curved. I haven’t modified the Chopper King except my initial thinning, convexing and sanding down that sandblasted finish to reduce friction. It’s the thinnest overall grind of the three, but the flattest “bevels” so stiction and initial food release is the worst, but once you get past that with the slight thinning/convexing/sanding which shouldn’t take more than 1-2 hours all in, it’s a naturally good cutter just on principle of being thin. And the AUS10 noticeably doesn’t get as sharp as the other three, but I just put a 1-2K edge on it and I get good mileage out of it. Great beater/loaner cleaver, fun to use and excellent value for your money.
 
I generally grip with 3 fingers on the handle, middle finger butted up against the choil, and thumb index as far forward as possible.

In trying to narrow down what I like and don't like about handles, I found that it's not necessarily the shape or overall size. But one key factor for my comfort is how well my pinky finger can grip. And for a fully round handle of this diameter, it doesn't work for me. Plus, now i have an excuse to make some more custom handles which is fun.


Have you tried a two finger pinch grip? For me this is pretty much essential to what makes caidao so versatile. And the reason that larger (taller) knives are easier to use than smaller ones.
 
I got a stack of cheap cleavers. But me looking for the right cleaver was just an illusion.

It's the cleaver, telling me how to grip- and how to cut.
 
Have you tried a two finger pinch grip? For me this is pretty much essential to what makes caidao so versatile. And the reason that larger (taller) knives are easier to use than smaller ones.
I assume you mean thumb+index+middle finger. I switch between that and an extended pinch grip with just index+thumb. I prefer to have 3 fingers on the handle if possible, but for very blade forward knives, shifting the grip farther forward towards the balance pt helps when I get tired.

I fully agree that the taller knives are nice because it allows the option to straighten your fingers on the blade without risking getting too close to the edge.
 
Had to take some more pics cuz I like this new one so much. (sorry @BillHanna ;))
PXL_20220602_005156849.jpg
 
I thought that who it might be. I got a cleaver coming from him also. How you liking it?
I only had a chance to use it briefly yesterday but it was even nicer than I expected. I asked for a lightweight 210x90 with a target of approx 300g and a laser grind. And provided just some guidelines for spine and handle preference. He delivered exactly what I envisioned, and was very easy to work with.

What is he making for you?
 
I only had a chance to use it briefly yesterday but it was even nicer than I expected. I asked for a lightweight 210x90 with a target of approx 300g and a laser grind. And provided just some guidelines for spine and handle preference. He delivered exactly what I envisioned, and was very easy to work with.

What is he making for you?
A very similar in specs cleaver and also laser grind. I’m looking forward to it.
 
Gotta up your cleaver game my man. Cleaver balance done right is made that much more impressive because of how big they are.
can you explain? 80% of the tool, and the steel part is way out front. the handle is tiny by comparision. my CCK 1303 is front heavy just due to physics. what am i missing here?
 
can you explain? 80% of the tool, and the steel part is way out front. the handle is tiny by comparision. my CCK 1303 is front heavy just due to physics. what am i missing here?
You are right, cleavers are generally blade heavy. You therefore can hold a cleaver farther forward than a gyuto. Balance point for most of mine tend to be around 60mm in front of the handle. A nice thing about having such a big blade is that you can achieve the weight of a "workhorse" gyuto while having a super thin blade. So think laser performance, but significantly more weight to let the knife do the work for you.

Some numbers to put things in perspective, CCK is a very lightweight, super thin cleaver at around 250g, and 210mm length. If you had a 240mm gyuto of the same weight, it would be on the fatter side. So you get a compact, high performing knife, but with improved mass.
 
I've been eyeing this iron clad shirogami 2 Togashi for a while after I originally got a couple of Leung Tim cleavers for myself and a friend (posted way earlier in this thread). My example needed more work than I was willing to put in so I passed it on. Still had the itch to try another full size cleaver but with better f+f. Hadn't seen much real world feedback on these until kpham's write up. That and a sale price tipped me over the edge.

It needs a proper edge and some smoothing of the spine and choil but otherwise it feels pretty nice. Just given it a quick test so far but will add some more thoughts later on.

IMG_20220610_232216454_HDR~2.jpg


Also funny reading back to the first pages of this thread seeing @BillHanna question whether he is a cleaver guy ha.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top