Best 1x30" sanding belts for stock removal (please read)?

[jessf]

Does clay hardening impact this as well? I'm under the impression that with differential hardening comes a greater risk of warping and failure in the blade. If I had a choice i'd like to expose my failure rates sooner in the process so I can grind only blades I know are good. Either way, all hypothetical for me as i'm not interested in production. Matus may benefit from the greater discussion.

Bear in mind that some abrasives will clog up with soft metal, while hardened steel will in fact freshen the grit. With the belts I've used I'm not sure I can say I can tell much difference in wear rate of the belt, hardened vs. unhardened.
Personally I will grind before HT on HT stable steels, and after HT on more temperamental steels, but that is mainly because grinding pre-HT I don't have to worry about losing the temper.

 

[Dan P.]

I HT with clay pre-grind because I find the lo-Mg simple carbon steels I use for this warpier than others. I'm not sure if that answers your question.

 

[jessf]

It does. Thanks.

I HT with clay pre-grind because I find the lo-Mg simple carbon steels I use for this warpier than others. I'm not sure if that answers your question.

 

[Matus]

Guys, do not let me stop you - you have started some great discussion that I find very informative. Can not really contribute as I am only on page 20 of Verhoeven

Dan - for the curiosity - what steel do you use for you knives?

 

[jessf]

The take-away for me is grinding before or after can depend on a lot of variables. I'm into very basic tech, so for me a precision kiln and the control over the steel is allows isn't an option, which makes the HT process the most risky part for me. I leave a bit more meat on the edge of the 4 blades I've made and I've only had the gyuto bend slightly. I could see a liquid cooling setup to allow me to grind post HT beneficial and relatively cheap add on. Again, depends on what you want. I like the look of a hamon so I would tend to try that on all my blades. If that means higher chance of failure then the closer to the start I can get that process then I spend less time grinding blades that might fail. If a lot of expenses goes into grinding belts, then I would really only want to use them on blades that will actually become sellable products.

Anyway, I'm finding there are many ways to do this.

Guys, do not let me stop you - you have started some great discussion that I find very informative. Can not really contribute as I am only on page 20 of Verhoeven

Dan - for the curiosity - what steel do you use for you knives?

 

[Kippington]

I'm into very basic tech, so for me a precision kiln and the control over the steel is allows isn't an option, which makes the HT process the most risky part for me.

I have the same problem in that I don't have a heat treating oven, although I plan to get one at some point in the near future.

I've been learning a ton about metallurgy from many different sources over the last few months, all the while forging monosteel blades over a small open hearth coke forge and quenching in water with increasing success. I'm starting to get into differential heat treating now, which I feel isn't too hard if you can quench a blade in water without it cracking or warping. If anything, covering half the blade with clay protects that half from many possible problems!

What I've actually discovered is a new set of minor problems arise when the clay-coat is introduced. Having it fall off the knife before it's supposed to is a big one, sometimes even before I reach the quench. Also, seeing the color of the steel became impossible when I tried a thin coat over the entire blade. I'll tell you what, trying to accurately and evenly heat a blade you cant see glowing is pretty rough to say the least!

But it's all in good fun for me. I treat it as a hobby and I'm having a blast!

 

[Dan P.]

Z

Dan - for the curiosity - what steel do you use for you knives?

I posted a more detailed answer but it was lost or perhaps edited?? Anyway the short(er) answer is that I use a variety!

 

[Matus]

I posted a more detailed answer but it was lost or perhaps edited?? Anyway the short(er) answer is that I use a variety!

Found it, thanks. I had the EU passaround knife in mind and that one was 1.2210.

 

[Matus]

I have spend about 1 hour profiling 8 petty blanks. The blanks were previously cut with an angle grinder so there was abour 2-5 mm (aroung the tip a little more) steel to be removed.

Here is my first experience with different belts:
- Klingspor (blue ceramic) belts in grit 24 are POOR. I managed to get the rough work done on 2 blanks and the belt was done for. The grains were flying off the belt over the whole time I used it. I do know now that it does not make much sense to go under #36 grit because the grains are very large and get broken off the belt more easily than finger grit grains. I have only one more #24 Klingspor belt and I am going to toss it. I will give the Klingspor grit 40 a try later as I have 2 more.
- Sait 7S in grit 40 managed to get the remaining 6 blanks done and still have some life in it. It also felt faster than the #24 Klingspor and of course smoother.
- I followed with Sait 7S 120 and then 3M Gator A100 just to smooth out the edges. I may give them a go on Gator A45 for more smoothness.

I will be soon grinding the bevels (these knives serve the purpose of me trying to learn it) and I will compare the Sait 7S belts (grit 40 and 80) with Norton Blaze 60.

One way or another - I am actually amazed how easy it was to get the profile done with the little 1x30" grinder. It has only 250W (1/3hp) so I managed to stall the belt here and there, and it is LOUD once you start to grind agains the 'platen' (if I can call that the little piece of metal) as the whole belt assembly serves as a resonator, but hey, for 80€ it is surprisingly capable.

 

[dkrank]

Before I get laughed out of the room, I am planning to get a 2x72" belt sander later down the road, but now just to ease me from filing the bevels by hand I just got a 'baby belt sander" in 1x30" size. It was delivered today. I just quickly tested it with the included belt (some low quality, probably only suitable for wood with grit 80) and piece of D2 - and it cuts!

I mean - it only has 250W (1/3 hp), but I did not see the rpms dropping when I pushed with reasonable force and even the sub-par belt was able to give me some reasonable material removal. So this could actually work.

Anyhow - I am not on the search for the best 1x30" belts that are out there. I know that this is not the mainstream size (not for knife making at least) and that the selection of high quality grits is going to be limited.

I have got a few blue zirconia Klingspor CS411X bands (24, 36 and 40 grit) for testing, but if there is anything better than that out there I would like to know.

I am looking for belts with grits 36 - 400 (so I think)

I have so far found the following options:

ECON Abrasives - Orange ceramic (36 - 120)
https://www.econabrasives.com/products.php?id=276&cat=68

3M "Gator" 337DC Trizact Aluminum Oxide (80 - 600)
Tru Grit, Inc. | The Leading Edge in Abrasives and Knifemaking Supplies

Norton R980P Blaze Plus Ceramic (60, 120)
Tru Grit, Inc. | The Leading Edge in Abrasives and Knifemaking Supplies

I would not mind ordering from abroad (most of these belts do not seem to be available in DE/EU apart form the Klingspor)

I would really appreciate your input, I have basically 0 experience with sanding belts.

thanks

EDIT: I plan to make knives (kitchen and outdoor) via stock removal (stainless and carbon steel) and possibly sanding some handle material.

I just want to say that there's nothing wrong with using a 1x30. It may have its limitations, but someone shouldn't be shamed for using one. I've seen great knives produced with a 1x30 before and 2x72 isn't the only option to up your game. 2x42 belt grinders can be equally as good and more affordable. I even think 2x36 can be pretty solid.

As for grain material, you definitely want ceramic to grind steel. Aluminum oxide works, but it's gotta be closed coat aluminum oxide. Here's an article on the difference in case you're curious (What is the Difference Between Open and Closed Coat Abrasives?). Open coat is really designed for softer materials and is more for woodworking. It'd be better for your scales if you're making those with wood. While AO works, ceramic belts are going to last longer and continue to cut at the same rate without needing to apply more pressure as time goes on. Ceramic might be more expensive, but you're going to get far more bang for your buck with it.