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Von blewitt

Von blewitt

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I'm looking for advice from someone with a butchery background.

A good friend of mine is a butcher, he knows I'm into high end kitchen knives, and he asked my advice about upgrading his kit. At the moment he uses a mix of victorinox rosewoods, and swibo's. Is there a higher end brand out there? Are there custom makers who specialise in butchery knives? any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance
 
I have heard lot of good things about munetoshi butcher. Haven't used it myself, but I bet, for the price, it's can't miss swing.
 
I'm in the process of putting together a set of higher end butchering knives. Some that I have are a Butch Harner bullnose butcher, a Marko scimitar, and boning knives from Butch, Marko and Silverthorn and one on order from Haburn. Another knife on order is one for pig sticking from Hiko Ito, a knife maker from Hawaii. I've seen others from Houston Edge Works and [video=youtube;qQN9as5N6jo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQN9as5N6jo[/video].
 
Almost hate to say it sine you are liquidating your Burkes, but at the highest end of things he would be a great maker. He has a couple years of butchery under his belt from his younger days.

Another great option -- and definitely less expensive -- is Butch Harner. Butch has been making a lot of breaking knives, etc. the last couple of years. And he may even still have a boit of stainless, if that is your friend's preference.
 
One thing to consider... He should be able to steel it if he's doing real volume.
 
What about the butcher knives that Jon introduced recently? No bling, but look very purposefully designed and from SLD (not sure I remember correctly) steel.
 
spoiledbroth said:
One thing to consider... He should be able to steel it if he's doing real volume.
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Well that is a bit of a conflict. That will mess up the edges of a harder steel knife. So you would want to use something softer, which will then need to be treated more frequently... Why a steel vs a stone, or at worst a ceramic rod?
 
Matus said:
What about the butcher knives that Jon introduced recently? No bling, but look very purposefully designed and from SLD (not sure I remember correctly) steel.
Click to expand...

I think they're SKD-12, actually (Essentially A2 steel, which is often used in the decent Western woodworking chisels; ~5% Chromium, rather than the 11-13% spec'd in SLD. Notably tougher than D2/SLD, but less wear resistance.), but I may be mistaken as well.

Depending upon how much money your friend wants to spend, Von Blewitt, I have found both the Swedish Frost and EKA butchery knives to be a step up from the usual Victorinox, F-Dick, etc before getting into Japanese or customs. They're NSF certified, use pretty well treated Sandvik 12C27 steel (Which takes and holds a much better edge than Victorinox, or the common German brands I used to use before really getting into knives.), have comfortable non-slip handles, and aren't terribly expensive. I just sharpened one of my Frosts last night, and I actually really like this steel for a mass-produced knife; it's the baby brother to the 13C26/AEB-L that a number of Japanese smiths use, and AEB-L is also the darling of the custom knife scene. Super fine grained, and sharpens kind of like a low-alloyed carbon; it takes a really aggressive edge that can still shave hair, even at low grits, and without a lot of work or even sophisticated sharpening tools. It would respond well to a honing rod, or steel... If he's worried about his knives getting damaged or going walkabout, these two brands are ones I would definitely consider in his shoes.

There are others on this forum with far more 'high-brow' butchery knife experience than I (My best is a Hiromoto SLD Honesuki, which I really like.), if this is what your friend seeks, and I am sure they will continue to comment. :)

- Steampunk
 
Another liking Butch's work for this type of knife. I have a hunting knife and a bullnose butcher from him. We've talked about boning knives but nothing has come to fruition. Yet. Also like Bloodroot for this type. I've tried to get into their lottery a few times when they've had a boning knife coming available. So far no joy. Butch and David both make fine knives and also use butchery knives, an important consideration to me.
 
Matus said:
Thumb up for my Hiromoto honesuki as well :) I do plan to re-handle it though ;)
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I was really surprised by mine; WAY better fit & finish than any of the other Hiromoto's I've owned, or handled. Nice, solid little knife... Do please post your re-handle pics; I would love to see what you end up doing. I actually don't mind the factory one, but I'm sure that you'll do something far nicer. :)

I would love it if there had also been some SLD Hankotsu's left in Hiromoto's factory.

Still kinda sad that Hiromoto isn't producing knives anymore; they were never the best at any one thing, but were good in a lot of ways, and very accessible. :(

- Steampunk
 
I have the SLD Hiromoto, with metal bolster, i like it a lot, I think it is a very beautiful knife, though I have never used it, and I don't know when the time will come to use it.
I don't want to high jack the thread, I don't agree that Hiromoto lnives were never best at one thing. The AS, are some of the most minimal beauty beautiful knives, very effective, his AS 30cm Asian handle is probably the most perfect knife I have( to my mind it should had costed over 500$( and it costed 215 if I remember correct, together with the saya, his metal bolster honyaki is my most beloved knife, and his non bolster honyaki is softer, not chippy at all, and as Salty had written on the past, a working honyaki ( same price as Madamoto KS).
 
Thanks for the responses guys, I think Butch will be a bit out of his league price wise, but I'll give him that option. I think the Frost or EKA will suit him, better edges and a bit less vanilla than the victorinox.
 
supersayan3 said:
I have the SLD Hiromoto, with metal bolster, i like it a lot, I think it is a very beautiful knife, though I have never used it, and I don't know when the time will come to use it.
I don't want to high jack the thread, I don't agree that Hiromoto lnives were never best at one thing. The AS, are some of the most minimal beauty beautiful knives, very effective, his AS 30cm Asian handle is probably the most perfect knife I have( to my mind it should had costed over 500$( and it costed 215 if I remember correct, together with the saya, his metal bolster honyaki is my most beloved knife, and his non bolster honyaki is softer, not chippy at all, and as Salty had written on the past, a working honyaki ( same price as Madamoto KS).
Click to expand...

I actually do not disagree; what I was intending with my comment is more that his knives were never taken to any one 'extreme'. They were well balanced in their attributes. My Hiromoto knives are my favorites in my collection at the moment for this exact reason. Other knives I have tried may have one facet that is better, but Hiromoto's are very complete in their general 'goodness'; they are the benchmark in this aspect. Single-minded knives are sometimes more fun to me when I pull them out, but their brilliance in one aspect comes at the price of an equal and opposite failing. Hiromoto's are just a nice place to be, and that is why I cherish mine, and lament that there won't be more of their ilk. :(

I apologize also for the thread hijack, but I have some fondness for these knives, and wished to clarify.

- Steampunk
 
Having sold meat packing knives for a living once upon a time, I don't see putting too much money into one. Real butchers and meat cutters wear them out in a relatively short time. One of my old customers went through a beef skinning knife (he liked Victorninox but not the F. Dick I tried to sell him) in about 3 months. I have a wood handled F. Dick 6-inch straight semi-flex boning knife I bought back in maybe 1980. It has been through hundreds of cod and bottom fish as well as maybe 80-90 deer, a few elk and a couple of head of beef. Plus other stuff. It is now about 50% sharpened away but the narrower the blade gets the more I like it. The Japanese never started eating much meat to fairly recently. I think European/western butchering knife patterns are more refined for reducing red meat to the table. Of course, when the Japanese copy western styles their steel is often far superior.
 
I second Sun on the Murphys. They are easy to sharpen, steel well, and have really comfortable handles. I used these a lot when I did a lot of butchery. Side note: their oyster knives kinda suck.
 
I recommend economic cleavers that you replace often. I don't think any "high end" knife can really withstand the brunt of butchering
 
The Silverthorn is not crazy expensive ($125), isn't crazy hard, is 01 and has a profile like a Forschner. It is the only 'fancy' boning knife my meat cutters have liked.

http://www.stktnc.com/store/p39/6"_Boning_Knife.html

image.jpg
 
Noodle Soup said:
Having sold meat packing knives for a living once upon a time, I don't see putting too much money into one. Real butchers and meat cutters wear them out in a relatively short time. One of my old customers went through a beef skinning knife (he liked Victorninox but not the F. Dick I tried to sell him) in about 3 months. I have a wood handled F. Dick 6-inch straight semi-flex boning knife I bought back in maybe 1980. It has been through hundreds of cod and bottom fish as well as maybe 80-90 deer, a few elk and a couple of head of beef. Plus other stuff. It is now about 50% sharpened away but the narrower the blade gets the more I like it. The Japanese never started eating much meat to fairly recently. I think European/western butchering knife patterns are more refined for reducing red meat to the table. Of course, when the Japanese copy western styles their steel is often far superior.
Click to expand...

I remember chuckthebutcher (RIP) once posted something along these lines. I don't remember what exactly he said but he always uses cheap knives for butchery because they will get worn down and broken and it's just not worth it to destroy your higher end knives like that.
 
I went back and forth with Jon at JKI trying to find some fancy butcher knives, and went with a g. uraku hankotsu to take care of my annual deer/elk, but if I were processing for a living I'd definitely go cheaper. It's tough to beat my forschners, but Jon has (or had) a bunch of butcher knives in store as of July of last year. I ended up passing on those, because they seemed so similar in appearance and function that I couldn't justify it, but they may be worth a try. If I recall they were comparable in price to forschner.

View attachment 32881
 
Uggh, what's up with the images coming out as attachments...retry

jkiButcher.jpg
 
I was in correspondence with chuckthebutcher about his work tools vs. his collection of knives. After his passing I summarized our conversations as this.

Goatwrites: Not long ago I sent Chuck a PM request for some input on which tools of the trade a real butcher used. ....If there is some value in sharing the edge(s) of a butcher/prep cook/chef/home cook based on the knifes job... well that may be an interesting forum exchange with Drinky and the Clown too.... Goat is out...

On 9/26/15 he responded as follows: ChucktheButcher responded:

"If I'm doing pack house butcher I prefer the cheaper knives. With victornox forschner being my favorite, followed by f. dick and dexter. I use them almost as desposible knives though. sharpening on a grinding wheel i get 6 months to a year out of them. The being said I have found masahiro makes some good cheap butcher knives. When I started my apprenticeship i was given a 5 in stiff boning knife, an 8 in breaking knife and a scimitar. I added a 6in upswept boning knife, a 8 in upswept breaking knife and a 6 in flexible boning knife as well. This served me fine for years before getting into more high end knives. If you're looking for slightly better quality some of the masahiros on ebay are the way to go. You need something the will stand up to 10 hrs of constant cutting."

ChucktheButchers signature:
All normal people love meat. If I went to a barbeque and there was no meat, I would say 'Yo Goober! Where's the meat?'.- Homer Simpson
 
copperJon said:
Uggh, what's up with the images coming out as attachments...retry

View attachment 32882
Click to expand...

Upper Left Corner- 180mm Kawahagi
Upper Right Corner- 150mm Atamatori
Upper Middle- 240mm Hirakiri
Below the handle of the Kawahagi- 270mm Sujihiki
Below the tip of the 150mm atamatori- 180mm Honesuki
Left of the 270mm Sujihiki- 150mm Honesuki
Right of tip of 270mm sujihiki- 210mm Atamatori
Right of 210mm atamatori- 150mm hankotsu
Lower right corner- 180mm atamatori
Lower left corner- 180mm Garasuki
 
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