Firstly, thanks to mhlee for putting together the knife questionnaire - it really helped rationalise / layout my requirements.
As it stands, last week doing a little research into buying a chef knife as a gift for my girlfriend, I identified (rightly or wrongly) that the current knife I myself use for 95% of kitchen chores, an aging Tojiro DP, was possibly being a little mistreated by me. Crucially, some of the stuff I read suggested that such knives (not the Tojiro DP specifically) were possibly a little too fragile for tasks like: smashing garlic gloves with the side of the knife, chopping nuts, processing hard skinned veg (like squash) or processing poultry bones.
The Tojiro DP has survived reasonably well but if it was indeed the case - that the knife is fragile - I went off in search of a knife more suitable for those tasks. A few YouTube videos later and it seemed that a better option for such activities would be a German knife, over a Japanese style blade that would possibly be more robust at the expense of edge retention. A few more YouTube videos later and I identified a Zwilling Pro Classic Chef knife (20cm / 8 inches) as meeting my requirements, picking it up for £75 GBP (around $90 USD).
Whilst researching the reason for a bolster versus no bolster I ended up on this forum, and here saw a lot of folk suggesting that German knives were sort of past it and there were better options for the same money with better steel that would out perform German knives. When considering the Zwillings I'd deliberately opted for a softer steel (57 RC) and a slightly shallower edge, for reasons of durability and ease of sharpening, I post here however for a sanity check as I don't really know enough about what's out there and what may meet my needs better than the Zwillings. I've used the questionnaire to try and spell out why I chose the Zwillings so as to hopefully give folk a guide as to what I'm after. I'd appreciate any corrections on any incorrect assumptions that lead me to the Zwilling (e.g. is the softer steel going to be good for poultry bones etc, is there a hard Japanese knife that would be better) and likewise any alternatives. Reading around it seemed like the Global G2 was sort of halfway between and under £100 (£99 / $123 USD) but checking here it didn't seem so popular.
It's worth mentioning that I ordered the Zwillings already but it is a week off arriving and I have 30 days to return it after then. In that time and before I use it I'd like to drum out of there is a better option for me. My thought at the moment is that I would like the Zwilling (or alternative) to be my user for 90% of tasks, possibly reaching for the Tojiro for more slicey tasks.
Thanks!
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LOCATION
UK, South West
KNIFE TYPE
- Chefs knife
- Right handed
- Western handle
- 200mm / 20cm / 8 inches
- Stainless preferred, yes.
- Max budget: The Zwillings Pro was £75 / $90 USD and ideally what I'd prefer to be closer to (see sharpening reasons below). I could stretch to around £125 GBP ~ $165 USD max, if there's something that's much better but ideally the first bracket.
KNIFE USE
At home. We batch cook, and process a heck of a lot of vegetables, seeds and nuts. I generally like one knife that I can use for the majority of these tasks, without switching back and forth to my parer.
Primary use is slicing and chopping veg, occasionally chopping up nuts and seeds, mincing herbs and garlic (I crush the garlic with the side of the knife, which I understand is a no no with my current knife), trimming meat, filleting fish. With reasonable frequency I prep harder veg like a squash. Additionally, I'm looking for something that I could possibly use for poultry bones too as this is something I'd like to learn / practise and I believe my current knife isn't suitable for this.
What is it replacing: It is replacing, or rather supplementing a Tojiro DP that has been my go to large knife but it's only now really I'm doing more than cutting up veg and meat and wish to have something I can use to process poultry.
Grip: Pinch grip for 95% of the time.
Cutting motions: Push cut, rock and chopping.
Improvements required:
Primarily, I've landed here asking this question after reading a little that the Tojiro DP Gyuto, that I've been using for a while ,is possibly more fragile than I thought and should probably not be used on harder skinned veg (like squash), should likely not be used to smash garlic (with the side of the knife as it might break) and probably not be used to crank up nuts and harder seeds. Furthermore, I want to start breaking down poultry and, from the little reading, I did it seemed like this might not be the best idea with the Tojiro DP Gyuto.
I'm happy with most aspects of the Tojiro to be honest in terms of balance, grip style, weight etc but I had wondered about possibly trying something heavier. With that in mind, I landed with the Zwelling Pro 20cm Classic Chef. If I list my rationale, hopefully this will make it easier to provide an alternative of correct my misunderstanding.
Hardness 57 Rockwell: Softer, so would be easier to deal with using a sharpening steel, which is what I use at home most of the time or on the current sharpening system I use (Spyderco Sharpmaker).
Angle: 15 / 30 degree edge: I thought this was a little steeper than my Victorinox Fibrox but not as steep as the Tojiro so should be more robust. Also would be easy to sharpen on the 30 degree angle of the sharp maker.
Steel if I'm honest, I didn't consider steel above the heat treat and angle. Stainless is preferred
Aesthetics: not really bothered here. Something above Victorinox Fibrox. I like the classic western look of the Tojiro and the Zwilling Pro chef but I also do have a soft spot for the Global G2.
Ergonomics: I like the transition from blade to bolster on the Tojiro and thought the Zwilling Pro looked similarly comfortable for pinch gripping. I have a cheap knife from Robert Welch (which I think is another German knife) and this looks similar to the Zwilling bolster and works well. If it makes a difference I have quite small hands but I fend I'm generally not gripping the handle of the knife.
Comfort: It would be fair to say that the Tojiro feels like an extension of my hand / arm in terms of balance and weight. I chose the Zwilling to see whether a heavier knife might suit me better and add 'heft' in chopping. I've no idea if that works in practise though. A rounded spine would be nice but is by no means essential.
Ease of use: easier to sharpen would be a plus here. I'm still a bit of a bit of a newbie in this regard so something that is less taxing would be appreciated. Again, part of the reason I opted for the Zwilling Pro is that my impression was that a RC of 57 would make it easy to steel the knife to a reasonable edge and that my ceramic rods (in the Spyderco kit) would work reasonably well. Ease of use, the shape of the Tojiro and the shape of the Zwilling Pro is probably what I'd like to stick with as they handle most of what I do without having to switch knives.
Edge retention: In choosing a Zwilling knife with an RC of 57, I believe I opted to have less edge retention. Given I don't mind steeling my knife before or halfway through a cooking session, edge retention didn't seem a primary concern as much as durability and ease or resharpening. My Tojiro seems good enough, given how in frequently I sharpen my knives but again I'd like a little more durability here.
KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Cutting board: plastic and wood (bamboo)
Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no. Yes, poorly at present. I have a steel, that is used to touch up my knives, a Spyderco Sharpmaker (ceramic rods) that I use when they need a little more. I have a set of cheapish whetstones that I mostly use for my pocket knives but I've never really been that good at sharpening, so I mostly stick to the steel and sharpmaker.
I am keen to learn to use my whetstones properly, which is the main reason I'm setting a relatively low price for the knife as I'd rather not destroy it learning to sharpen it on my budget stones. Again, this is a reason the Zwelling Pro was selected as it comes in at around £75 (around 90 USD) so it's not a deal breaker if I ugly it up a bit and the relatively soft steel hopefully made it easy to see progress.
Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) At this stage I would ideally like to stick with what I have (the steel, spyderco ceramic rods and my budget whetstones) but I would like to purchase a good starter set of whetstones in the future.
As it stands, last week doing a little research into buying a chef knife as a gift for my girlfriend, I identified (rightly or wrongly) that the current knife I myself use for 95% of kitchen chores, an aging Tojiro DP, was possibly being a little mistreated by me. Crucially, some of the stuff I read suggested that such knives (not the Tojiro DP specifically) were possibly a little too fragile for tasks like: smashing garlic gloves with the side of the knife, chopping nuts, processing hard skinned veg (like squash) or processing poultry bones.
The Tojiro DP has survived reasonably well but if it was indeed the case - that the knife is fragile - I went off in search of a knife more suitable for those tasks. A few YouTube videos later and it seemed that a better option for such activities would be a German knife, over a Japanese style blade that would possibly be more robust at the expense of edge retention. A few more YouTube videos later and I identified a Zwilling Pro Classic Chef knife (20cm / 8 inches) as meeting my requirements, picking it up for £75 GBP (around $90 USD).
Whilst researching the reason for a bolster versus no bolster I ended up on this forum, and here saw a lot of folk suggesting that German knives were sort of past it and there were better options for the same money with better steel that would out perform German knives. When considering the Zwillings I'd deliberately opted for a softer steel (57 RC) and a slightly shallower edge, for reasons of durability and ease of sharpening, I post here however for a sanity check as I don't really know enough about what's out there and what may meet my needs better than the Zwillings. I've used the questionnaire to try and spell out why I chose the Zwillings so as to hopefully give folk a guide as to what I'm after. I'd appreciate any corrections on any incorrect assumptions that lead me to the Zwilling (e.g. is the softer steel going to be good for poultry bones etc, is there a hard Japanese knife that would be better) and likewise any alternatives. Reading around it seemed like the Global G2 was sort of halfway between and under £100 (£99 / $123 USD) but checking here it didn't seem so popular.
It's worth mentioning that I ordered the Zwillings already but it is a week off arriving and I have 30 days to return it after then. In that time and before I use it I'd like to drum out of there is a better option for me. My thought at the moment is that I would like the Zwilling (or alternative) to be my user for 90% of tasks, possibly reaching for the Tojiro for more slicey tasks.
Thanks!
------
LOCATION
UK, South West
KNIFE TYPE
- Chefs knife
- Right handed
- Western handle
- 200mm / 20cm / 8 inches
- Stainless preferred, yes.
- Max budget: The Zwillings Pro was £75 / $90 USD and ideally what I'd prefer to be closer to (see sharpening reasons below). I could stretch to around £125 GBP ~ $165 USD max, if there's something that's much better but ideally the first bracket.
KNIFE USE
At home. We batch cook, and process a heck of a lot of vegetables, seeds and nuts. I generally like one knife that I can use for the majority of these tasks, without switching back and forth to my parer.
Primary use is slicing and chopping veg, occasionally chopping up nuts and seeds, mincing herbs and garlic (I crush the garlic with the side of the knife, which I understand is a no no with my current knife), trimming meat, filleting fish. With reasonable frequency I prep harder veg like a squash. Additionally, I'm looking for something that I could possibly use for poultry bones too as this is something I'd like to learn / practise and I believe my current knife isn't suitable for this.
What is it replacing: It is replacing, or rather supplementing a Tojiro DP that has been my go to large knife but it's only now really I'm doing more than cutting up veg and meat and wish to have something I can use to process poultry.
Grip: Pinch grip for 95% of the time.
Cutting motions: Push cut, rock and chopping.
Improvements required:
Primarily, I've landed here asking this question after reading a little that the Tojiro DP Gyuto, that I've been using for a while ,is possibly more fragile than I thought and should probably not be used on harder skinned veg (like squash), should likely not be used to smash garlic (with the side of the knife as it might break) and probably not be used to crank up nuts and harder seeds. Furthermore, I want to start breaking down poultry and, from the little reading, I did it seemed like this might not be the best idea with the Tojiro DP Gyuto.
I'm happy with most aspects of the Tojiro to be honest in terms of balance, grip style, weight etc but I had wondered about possibly trying something heavier. With that in mind, I landed with the Zwelling Pro 20cm Classic Chef. If I list my rationale, hopefully this will make it easier to provide an alternative of correct my misunderstanding.
Hardness 57 Rockwell: Softer, so would be easier to deal with using a sharpening steel, which is what I use at home most of the time or on the current sharpening system I use (Spyderco Sharpmaker).
Angle: 15 / 30 degree edge: I thought this was a little steeper than my Victorinox Fibrox but not as steep as the Tojiro so should be more robust. Also would be easy to sharpen on the 30 degree angle of the sharp maker.
Steel if I'm honest, I didn't consider steel above the heat treat and angle. Stainless is preferred
Aesthetics: not really bothered here. Something above Victorinox Fibrox. I like the classic western look of the Tojiro and the Zwilling Pro chef but I also do have a soft spot for the Global G2.
Ergonomics: I like the transition from blade to bolster on the Tojiro and thought the Zwilling Pro looked similarly comfortable for pinch gripping. I have a cheap knife from Robert Welch (which I think is another German knife) and this looks similar to the Zwilling bolster and works well. If it makes a difference I have quite small hands but I fend I'm generally not gripping the handle of the knife.
Comfort: It would be fair to say that the Tojiro feels like an extension of my hand / arm in terms of balance and weight. I chose the Zwilling to see whether a heavier knife might suit me better and add 'heft' in chopping. I've no idea if that works in practise though. A rounded spine would be nice but is by no means essential.
Ease of use: easier to sharpen would be a plus here. I'm still a bit of a bit of a newbie in this regard so something that is less taxing would be appreciated. Again, part of the reason I opted for the Zwilling Pro is that my impression was that a RC of 57 would make it easy to steel the knife to a reasonable edge and that my ceramic rods (in the Spyderco kit) would work reasonably well. Ease of use, the shape of the Tojiro and the shape of the Zwilling Pro is probably what I'd like to stick with as they handle most of what I do without having to switch knives.
Edge retention: In choosing a Zwilling knife with an RC of 57, I believe I opted to have less edge retention. Given I don't mind steeling my knife before or halfway through a cooking session, edge retention didn't seem a primary concern as much as durability and ease or resharpening. My Tojiro seems good enough, given how in frequently I sharpen my knives but again I'd like a little more durability here.
KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Cutting board: plastic and wood (bamboo)
Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no. Yes, poorly at present. I have a steel, that is used to touch up my knives, a Spyderco Sharpmaker (ceramic rods) that I use when they need a little more. I have a set of cheapish whetstones that I mostly use for my pocket knives but I've never really been that good at sharpening, so I mostly stick to the steel and sharpmaker.
I am keen to learn to use my whetstones properly, which is the main reason I'm setting a relatively low price for the knife as I'd rather not destroy it learning to sharpen it on my budget stones. Again, this is a reason the Zwelling Pro was selected as it comes in at around £75 (around 90 USD) so it's not a deal breaker if I ugly it up a bit and the relatively soft steel hopefully made it easy to see progress.
Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) At this stage I would ideally like to stick with what I have (the steel, spyderco ceramic rods and my budget whetstones) but I would like to purchase a good starter set of whetstones in the future.
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or even the palm smash with the knife.
