chinese cleaver questions

Miura knives
Find deals on amazon
Advertise with us
Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
stringer said:
Sure. You can thin anything. Just sharpen at an angle that's flatter than your cutting bevel and you are thinning.
Click to expand...
should I try to do it evenly like do 2 passes on 1 side flip over and do the same on the other side?
should I do it with the ambidextrous method of switching hands or do it like I sharpen holding the knife in my dominant hand?
how do I know that I thinned enough?
how do I know if I didn't thin enough?
should I do the thinning with the 100/200 gritstone or the 800 gritstone?

asking all those questions because I have no experience thinning a knife
 
r0bz said:
should I try to do it evenly like do 2 passes on 1 side flip over and do the same on the other side?
should I do it with the ambidextrous method of switching hands or do it like I sharpen holding the knife in my dominant hand?
how do I know that I thinned enough?
how do I know that I didn't thin enough?
should I do it with the 100/200 gritstone or the 800 gritstone?

asking all those questions because I have no experience thinning a knife
Click to expand...

Give me a minute. I'll show you. Easier than typing.
 
The video is uploading. I'll post a link when it's done. In regards to how to know when you are finished, don't try to get there all at once. Test the knife. Thin for a few minutes on each side. Touch up your micro bevel and test the knife again. Go for a few more minutes, test the knife. If you go too far the worst thing that will happens is your edge will be fragile. But then you can just reverse the process a little and thicken it up by being a little more heavy handed with your microbevel.
 
stringer said:
The video is uploading. I'll post a link when it's done. In regards to how to know when you are finished, don't try to get there all at once. Test the knife. Thin for a few minutes on each side. Touch up your micro bevel and test the knife again. Go for a few more minutes, test the knife. If you go too far the worst thing that will happens is your edge will be fragile. But then you can just reverse the process a little and thicken it up by being a little more heavy handed with your microbevel.
Click to expand...
what is the microbevel ?
i remember the nice diagram you showed me but I don't think i know what you refer to as the micro bevel
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/attachments/pxl_20211018_122244232-jpg.147493/
 
stringer said:
How to thin a chef knife.

Click to expand...

thanks for the explanation
you generally don't sharpen knives with the push and pull method?
what is the microbevel ? there is an angle for sharpening and an angle for thinning I understand
 
r0bz said:
thanks for the explanation
you generally don't sharpen knives with the push and pull method?
what is the microbevel ? there is an angle for sharpening and an angle for thinning I understand
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what the push pull method is. Generally I do thinning with what I have heard people describe as scrubbing. Then I do micro bevel work by sweeping the knife along the edge. The micro bevel is the shiny part at the edge here:

PXL_20211202_173249372.MP.jpg
 
stringer said:
I'm not sure what the push pull method is. Generally I do thinning with what I have heard people describe as scrubbing. Then I do micro bevel work by sweeping the knife along the edge. The micro bevel is the shiny part at the edge here:

View attachment 154503
Click to expand...
most of the people on the forum refer to this as the push and pull method (working section by section applying pressure on the edge trailing strokes)

what is the advantage of the single stroke method you showed in the video?
how can you check for burr if you alternate from side to side ?
 
r0bz said:
most of the people on the forum refer to this as the push and pull method
Click to expand...

Yes, this is what I call scrubbing. I use this method for thinning. Or removing material from the sides of the knife. When doing this I don't really pay attention to the burr until the end. When I'm done thinning I should be able to raise a burr with one light stroke in either direction.

what is the advantage of the single stroke method you showed in the video?
how can you check for burr if you alternate from side to side ?
Click to expand...

When doing apex work I do a sweeping method because I feel I'm more accurate and precise with it. Because you are dealing with such a small contact area any force is amplified so it pays to be as precise as possible. I do my sweeping strokes edge leading and alternating. This means I raise a burr with every stroke. But I also erase completely the previous burr with every stroke. As I get closer to finishing I use a lighter and lighter touch and finer and finer stones. At a microscopic level there is always a burr. But the goal is to abrade and minimize it as much as possible. I feel this is a better strategy than "ripping" the burr off. I will sometimes do this in between thinning and sharpening. Especially with soft stainless there is often a lot of debris and fatigued steel that can hang on. So to save time I will try and rip some of it off after thinning and before building a microbevel. Drag it through cork or some end grain wood.
 
stringer said:
Yes, this is what I call scrubbing. I use this method for thinning. Or removing material from the sides of the knife. When doing this I don't really pay attention to the burr until the end. When I'm done thinning I should be able to raise a burr with one light stroke in either direction.



When doing apex work I do a sweeping method because I feel I'm more accurate and precise with it. Because you are dealing with such a small contact area any force is amplified so it pays to be as precise as possible. I do my sweeping strokes edge leading and alternating. This means I raise a burr with every stroke. But I also erase completely the previous burr with every stroke. As I get closer to finishing I use a lighter and lighter touch and finer and finer stones. At a microscopic level there is always a burr. But the goal is to abrade and minimize it as much as possible. I feel this is a better strategy than "ripping" the burr off. I will sometimes do this in between thinning and sharpening. Especially with soft stainless there is often a lot of debris and fatigued steel that can hang on. So to save time I will try and rip some of it off after thinning and before building a microbevel. Drag it through cork or some end grain wood.
Click to expand...
I sharpen the edge using the push and pull method
I sharpen 1 side until I can feel a good burr along the whole edge then I flip sides until I get a good burr on the whole edge
then I strop on the stone edge trailing and the last few strokes I do edge leading as u suggested in order to deburr

I was asking this because if you do your single stroke method how do you know you are finished sharpening and ready to deburr if you alternate from side to side and cant check for the burr?
 
r0bz said:
I sharpen the edge using the push and pull method
I sharpen 1 side until I can feel a good burr along the whole edge then I flip sides until I get a good burr on the whole edge
then I strop on the stone edge trailing and the last few strokes I do edge leading as u suggested in order to deburr

I was asking this because if you do your single stroke method how do you know you are finished sharpening and ready to deburr if you alternate from side to side and cant check for the burr?
Click to expand...


I only use the push pull method for pretty serious thinning. Most of the rest of the time i only sharpen the micro bevel. I know when I need to thin when I can't feel a burr after one sweeping stroke on a 1000 grit stone.
 
stringer said:
I only use the push pull method for pretty serious thinning. Most of the rest of the time i only sharpen the micro bevel. I know when I need to thin when I can't feel a burr after one sweeping stroke on a 1000 grit stone.
Click to expand...
hmmm okay would you refer to the sweeping stroke as stropping edge leading ?
 
stringer said:
How to thin a chef knife.
Click to expand...
I really, really liked this video. I just started on my thinning adventures so I have a few questions, if you don't mind.
  1. What changes when thinning as the stone gets dished? Or, how bad does the stone need to be dished before it needs to be flattened? It feels wasteful to flatten each time I notice my stone dishing.

  2. I think you said you go up to 2000 with thinning. Why is that? If it was just surface finish, I would think you would use sandpaper or something?

    Or, are you always thinning to the point that you hit the edge? You then add a "micro" bevel at an angle that you like sharpening at and an even smaller "nano" bevel to stabilize / deburr? Is the point of the "micro" bevel so that you don't have to thin every time you sharpen or is it mostly so that the edge isn't too thin / weak?

  3. A similar question: Lets say you finished thinning to your satisfaction, used the knife and now it is dull but not thick behind the edge. Would you sharpen at the micro bevel angle with the alternating edge leading strokes, then add the nano bevel? Does the micro bevel grow in size the more times your sharpen without thinning? Does a large micro bevel (bevel at the "sharpening angle") size basically tell me that I should (or could) thin my knife?

  4. Does food release depend on convexing the thinning bevel / changing the thinning angle? I think kipp had some long description of that, maybe I should read that again...
 
r0bz said:
okay for deburring you use the edge leading strokes on the stone?
cant they create a new burr?
Click to expand...

Yes. I intend for them to create a new burr on every stroke. Just a smaller and smaller one with each stroke. I go to finer stones and use less pressure. Edge trailing draws a burr out with every stroke making it bigger. Edge leading knocks it down to the other side every time. I would rather minimize it than make it bigger.


r0bz said:
i do the apex work with the push and pull method
thats what i meant to say
Click to expand...

I have tried working this way and it doesn't work for me. I don't feel like i have any precise motor control when using this method. It's just for hogging material on a knife that needs a lot of work. For me.
 
What @stringer is saying is, when he thins the blade, the edge is already so thin that he doesn't need to make multiple strokes on one side to raise the burr. He is still raising one, he can just do it with that single stroke.
 
HumbleHomeCook said:
What @stringer is saying is, when he thins the blade, the edge is already so thin that he doesn't need to make multiple strokes on one side to raise the burr. He is still raising one, he can just do it with that single stroke.
Click to expand...
hmmm do you think he can he feel it with the thumb if he tries to ?
 
rmrf said:
I really, really liked this video. I just started on my thinning adventures so I have a few questions, if you don't mind.
  1. What changes when thinning as the stone gets dished? Or, how bad does the stone need to be dished before it needs to be flattened? It feels wasteful to flatten each time I notice my stone dishing.
Click to expand...


For major thinning a little dishing doesn't bother me. I am going for a convex grind most of the time so dishing and wobbling really aren't enemies until I get to the apex work. They should be done on very flat stones for best results. But that work isn't hard on stones so higher grit stones don't dish much.



  1. I think you said you go up to 2000 with thinning. Why is that? If it was just surface finish, I would think you would use sandpaper or something?
Click to expand...
I am too lazy for sandpaper most of the time. 2k is a nice finish for food release.

  1. Or, are you always thinning to the point that you hit the edge? You then add a "micro" bevel at an angle that you like sharpening at and an even smaller "nano" bevel to stabilize / deburr? Is the point of the "micro" bevel so that you don't have to thin every time you sharpen or is it mostly so that the edge isn't too thin / weak?
Click to expand...
I only do serious thinning on a knife once unless there is damage. Any amount of damage repair requires some thinning in my book. You are raising the apex above whatever chip you are getting rid of, you need to shift the rest of the geometry too or the knife will lose performance. The micro bevel makes the edge tougher and more durable. Prevents chipping and rolling. I prefer knives that are very thin behind the edge for performance with a micro bevel for durability.


  2. A similar question: Lets say you finished thinning to your satisfaction, used the knife and now it is dull but not thick behind the edge. Would you sharpen at the micro bevel angle with the alternating edge leading strokes, then add the nano bevel? Does the micro bevel grow in size the more times your sharpen without thinning? Does a large micro bevel (bevel at the "sharpening angle") size basically tell me that I should (or could) thin my knife?
Click to expand...

I would sharpen at the micro bevel angle for as long as possible with alternating edge leading. The micro bevel does grow over time. But you can only tell if a knife is performing how you want it to by using it. There are many factors with geometry, profile, blade thickness, grind, etc that influence the size of the micro bevel. You can't tell just by looking.

  1. Does food release depend on convexing the thinning bevel / changing the thinning angle? I think kipp had some long description of that, maybe I should read that again...
Click to expand...

Convexity is good for food release. I prefer convex to flat or concave in general but this is another one of those things where it's very complicated. There are a lot of ways to grind a knife.
 
dont laugh. i just rub my cleavers on a Spyderco Sharpmaker. it works fine. my ancestors are rolling in their graves tho.

i recently just took off my middle finger's print when i was drying my 1303. i didnt even feel it..till later. then i felt my heartbeat in the tip of my finger while i was yelling.."yah yah yah get yah yah, me a..yah yah. bandaide...yaaaaah!"
 
stringer said:
Sure I can feel it with my thumb.
Click to expand...

I do the apex work with the push and pull method as i mentioned
I have a few questions

I use the 800 gritstone although I have 3000/1000 and 100/200 grit
1. would you say after raising the burr on both sides before deburring I should wash the stone from all the sludge and metal particles (i do that because someone in the forum told me to do so wondering what's your opinion on that)?
2. should I deburr with edge leading or edge trailing in your opinion with the stropping on the stone what you call the swiping stroke?
 
r0bz said:
I do the apex work with the push and pull method as i mentioned
I have a few questions

I use the 800 gritstone although I have 3000/1000 and 100/200 grit
1. would you say after raising the burr on both sides before deburring I should wash the stone from all the sludge and metal particles (i do that because someone in the forum told me to do so wondering what's your opinion on that)?
2. should I deburr with edge leading or edge trailing in your opinion with the stropping on the stone what you call the swiping stroke?
Click to expand...

Yes it's a good idea to rinse the knife off frequently. Debris will keep you from being able to see what you are doing. I always use edge leading strokes when I do the sweeping motion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top