Chosera 800 or Debado MD-100?

[Masamoto Kaos]

Hi
I’m going back and forth between these two stones. Does anyone have hands on experience with these two? I really appreciate it if you could share your feedbacks.
Cheers

 

[ModRQC]

Chosera 800 is a good stone, can do a lot of things and feels super nice but is a bit slow/fine for grits.

No xp with any debado. Quite harder stone than the Cerax 1K I own so I suspect it tends to be close to grit feels great and is more straightforward of a 1K like in the end. I think budget considerations might still make NP800 the best value for bucks. However Suehiro regularly hit deal prices whereas the Naniwa Pro line is usually quite tight regarding prices when comparing the cheapest/biggest vendors.

 

[Masamoto Kaos]

Chosera 800 is a good stone, can do a lot of things and feels super nice but is a bit slow/fine for grits.

No xp with any debado. Quite harder stone than the Cerax 1K I own so I suspect it tends to be close to grit feels great and is more straightforward of a 1K like in the end. I think budget considerations might still make NP800 the best value for bucks. However Suehiro regularly hit deal prices whereas the Naniwa Pro line is usually quite tight regarding prices when comparing the cheapest/biggest vendors.

Thanks for sharing your feedback. It seems that I cannot go wrong with Chosera, it’s everybody’s favourite. The only reason that I am considering Debado is that my smallest knife is 240 so its larger surface would a bit more handy. If performance wise they are in the same league, I’ll get Debado otherwise I’ll go with Chosera.

 

[jedy617]

Chosera 800 is always a safe bet

 

[ModRQC]

Thanks for sharing your feedback. It seems that I cannot go wrong with Chosera, it’s everybody’s favourite. The only reason that I am considering Debado is that my smallest knife is 240 so its larger surface would a bit more handy. If performance wise they are in the same league, I’ll get Debado otherwise I’ll go with Chosera.

Don’t fret too much about that. Anything 180-270 is pretty natural to sharpen on average sized stones. Especially when you’ve not known of anything else much. Smaller than average stones like some Cerax/combos don’t present much of a problem neither but they do more tangibly feel outsized to a 240mm + edge. Extra width though won’t help much unless you know how to scrupulously use the extra surface. If your sharpening has already been conditionned to std size, I don’t see it as an obvious extra - except perhaps for a coarser stone dedicated to thinning jobs mostly.

 

[Masamoto Kaos]

Don’t fret too much about that. Anything 180-270 is pretty natural to sharpen on average sized stones. Especially when you’ve not known of anything else much. Smaller than average stones like some Cerax/combos don’t present much of a problem neither but they do more tangibly feel outsized to a 240mm + edge. Extra width though won’t help much unless you know how to scrupulously use the extra surface. If your sharpening has already been conditionned to std size, I don’t see it as an obvious extra - except perhaps for a coarser stone dedicated to thinning jobs mostly.

Thanks, I guess you’re right. I haven’t touched Debado yet so I have no idea how useful the extra surface might be. Besides, my first non-carbon knife is on the way, I should get something that wouldn’t have problem with SG2.

 

[Benuser]

Don't worry, an NP800 will deal very well with any SG-2.

 

[Masamoto Kaos]

Don't worry, an NP800 will deal very well with any SG-2.

This is what I’ve inferred from people’s feedbacks so far. It seems that Chosera can handle HAP40 too. Since I couldn’t find much data on Debado MD 100, I decided to post the question here hoping to get more info on it.

 

[Benuser]

One of the properties of the NP800 is in the breaking down of the abrasive particles. If it starts at about 800, the end result will be much finer, 1200 or so. Depending on pressure, mud, water, you may obtain different results. Well worth experimenting with it.

 

[jedy617]

I believe most alox based stones should be pretty similar in handling stuff like hap40 and sg2...I would prefer diamond for either, but traditional will still do fine

 

[Benuser]

I believe most alox based stones should be pretty similar in handling stuff like hap40 and sg2...I would prefer diamond for either, but traditional will still do fine

Which brings me to another aspect: the exceptional tactile and auditory feedback the NP800 offers.

 

[Masamoto Kaos]

Which brings me to another aspect: the exceptional tactile and auditory feedback the NP800 offers.

Will Chosera 400 go well with 800 or the jump is too close?

 

[Heckel7302]

Will Chosera 400 go well with 800 or the jump is too close?

Classic pairing. Round out the power trio with the 3000. Everything any rational sharpener could need.

 

[Benuser]

Classic pairing. Round out the power trio with the 3000. Everything any rational sharpener could need.

Except for heavy thinning, where I'd add a Shapton Glass 320 or even coarser as long as you stay away from the very edge.

 

[Masamoto Kaos]

Classic pairing. Round out the power trio with the 3000. Everything any rational sharpener could need.

So I guess 400 goes well with 800 . If I get these two, 3000 needs to wait a little bit

 

[Masamoto Kaos]

Except for heavy thinning, where I'd add a Shapton Glass 320 or even coarser as long as you stay away from the very edge.

Really? 400 shouldn’t be that far from 320. I assume SG 320 is not true 320 then, right?

 

[jedy617]

Never used a chosera 400 but I'm guessing it's because the sg 320 is pretty hard, at least mine is. Not the fastest for thinning but it'll work

 

[Masamoto Kaos]

Which brings me to another aspect: the exceptional tactile and auditory feedback the NP800 offers.

By the way, could you elaborate on “auditory feedback”? Do you mean you’ll tell if you’re off-angle by sound? I have had only cheap Amazon stones and used sharpies to get the hack of it but never heard anything different when I was on the primary bevel instead of the edge. That would be cool if Chosera tells you if you’re off-angle

 

[Benuser]

Really? 400 shouldn’t be that far from 320. I assume SG 320 is not true 320 then, right?

The 400 is much finer in reality, and refines further during the sharpening. Not so with the 320 which is a real 320 if not coarser, and remains so.
A bit a general rule with NP and SG, with a few exceptions though: I know about the NP600 and the SG500.
At this high level it's hazardous to formulate generalities about series: all stones have their own character.

 

[ModRQC]

If I can add this: SG320 is particularly more effective with SS clads/cores IME. Or at least, that's where it demarks itself to me, whereas with carbon/iron clads it's not a stone I readily need/tend to go to - but obviously it'll work very well there. SG320 is much harder than many stones of its speed and doesn't dish SO much for that speed. Low alloy seems like wasting its true potential, since low alloy can be readily put on anything SG500 SP1K or Cerax 1K and be just about as fast, but also a fair bit more behaved and controlled. These are more impressions than facts.

On the other hand, NP400 to me was a bit of a contradiction. My first impression was loving it a lot, but after a lot of more or less coarse stones of any coarse grits, my lasting impression was that NP400 was asking a bit too much for what it gave back. To me SG320 - SG500 is a much more efficient duo that tackles better at either how too slow/too dishy or water needing NP400 could ever be at anything. I remember clearly reverting back to Shapton PRO 320 for sharpening SS knives, PRO 1K for sharpening low alloys, until I got a SG500 which made my buy the SG 320. SG500 was my starter stone for anything for a while. Basically ditched the NP400 when I realized I would rather use the SPs, ditched the SP320 when I realized I could just use Cerax 320 instead in much more various tasks, ditched the SP1K when I discovered Cerax 1K for low alloys and never looked back. More impressions than facts again. SG320 - 500 made me entirely sure I had went the best way, and I still have them and use them for SS steels mostly or where I need some precise, fast, rather heavy duty work done.

In the meanwhile, there is a lot to learn on a combo like NP400 - 800 and it will certainly do the job of anything maintenance thinning to getting a good kitchen edge.

 

[Michael Browning]

Sorry if I may, I do think Shapton glass 500 (grab the double thick if you can find one) and a Shapton Glass 2k or 3k gives really really good results in my experience. A good 2 stones set up. You also can replace glass 2k for pro 2k, both are fantastic.

 

[Masamoto Kaos]

If I can add this: SG320 is particularly more effective with SS clads/cores IME. Or at least, that's where it demarks itself to me, whereas with carbon/iron clads it's not a stone I readily need/tend to go to - but obviously it'll work very well there. SG320 is much harder than many stones of its speed and doesn't dish SO much for that speed. Low alloy seems like wasting its true potential, since low alloy can be readily put on anything SG500 SP1K or Cerax 1K and be just about as fast, but also a fair bit more behaved and controlled. These are more impressions than facts.

On the other hand, NP400 to me was a bit of a contradiction. My first impression was loving it a lot, but after a lot of more or less coarse stones of any coarse grits, my lasting impression was that NP400 was asking a bit too much for what it gave back. To me SG320 - SG500 is a much more efficient duo that tackles better at either how too slow/too dishy or water needing NP400 could ever be at anything. I remember clearly reverting back to Shapton PRO 320 for sharpening SS knives, PRO 1K for sharpening low alloys, until I got a SG500 which made my buy the SG 320. SG500 was my starter stone for anything for a while. Basically ditched the NP400 when I realized I would rather use the SPs, ditched the SP320 when I realized I could just use Cerax 320 instead in much more various tasks, ditched the SP1K when I discovered Cerax 1K for low alloys and never looked back. More impressions than facts again. SG320 - 500 made me entirely sure I had went the best way, and I still have them and use them for SS steels mostly or where I need some precise, fast, rather heavy duty work done.

In the meanwhile, there is a lot to learn on a combo like NP400 - 800 and it will certainly do the job of anything maintenance thinning to getting a good kitchen edge.

Thank you very much for sharing your impression. Is NP 400 closer to SG320 or SG500? Cerax 320 is a soaking stone, I want to get S&G so didn’t think about that much. Besides, a coarse soaking stone must dish out very fast. The only thing that stops me from jumping on Naniwa wagon right away is that I don’t like to pay for brands, I”d like to pay for quality. For sure, they make quality stones, that’s why they became popular in the first place but whenever I want to get premium of anything, I think about how much is for the name and how much is for the quality .
K&S has shared a video comparing SP 1000 to Chosera 1000. The result was shocking. I was under the impression that Shapton grits were misleading so didn’t consider them either so for the coarse stone wanted to go with NP 400 but for the mid stone cannot decide between Cosers 800 and Debado MD-100.

 

[Masamoto Kaos]

Sorry if I may, I do think Shapton glass 500 (grab the double thick if you can find one) and a Shapton Glass 2k or 3k gives really really good results in my experience. A good 2 stones set up. You also can replace glass 2k for pro 2k, both are fantastic.

I can get SG320 at a good price but SG500 is a bit difficult to get at a good price. I have also found SP 1500 at a good price but not SP 2000
To be honest, I didn’t look for SP stones too much though when I watched K&S video. SP 1000 was very coarse for the grit.

 

[Michael Browning]

If doing edge sharpening, Shapton PRO 1.5k is a good starting stone, no need to go any lower unless your edge is DULL. 1.5k can reset edge but will take a bit. Shapton PRO 2k is like 3k-4k, refined tooth finish. The Shapton 5k is a love or hate stone.

My 2 suggestions,
SG500/2000 or 3000
Or
Shapton PRO 1.5k/2k or 5k.

You do need to invest in #140 Atoma diamond plate to flatten these stones eventually. Everyone has their preference.

If going Naniwa, 800/3000 is a great combo. Depending on your experience, 800 isn't too fast nor too slow, I think that's a good thing for a beginner stone. It gives sharpener more control while metal not being wasted too fast. There are so much informations I can go on about stones but I can say this. Do not go into a rabbit hole. Once you accept any recommendations from one of us on here, stick with it. Expensive stones don't make the knife sharper, the skills does. Experienced sharpeners can make the edge REALLLY sharp off of a 200grit stone than an inexperienced sharpeners who can't make it sharp off of 1k. It's all about angle control. No matter what angles it came with, if you set an angle, stay at that angle and be consistent. Sorry if I am rambling on.

Definitely start with Shapton 1.5k, I love the stone as my starting stone, I finished with a quick strop on Kata 8k. Then clean off edge with plain denim. It works for me.

 

[ModRQC]

Thank you very much for sharing your impression. Is NP 400 closer to SG320 or SG500? Cerax 320 is a soaking stone, I want to get S&G so didn’t think about that much. Besides, a coarse soaking stone must dish out very fast. The only thing that stops me from jumping on Naniwa wagon right away is that I don’t like to pay for brands, I”d like to pay for quality. For sure, they make quality stones, that’s why they became popular in the first place but whenever I want to get premium of anything, I think about how much is for the name and how much is for the quality .
K&S has shared a video comparing SP 1000 to Chosera 1000. The result was shocking. I was under the impression that Shapton grits were misleading so didn’t consider them either so for the coarse stone wanted to go with NP 400 but for the mid stone cannot decide between Cosers 800 and Debado MD-100.

For what I can provide of a definitive answer SG500 is the one there, and practically about as fast/totally SnG stone to go to before NP400.

SG320 is faster than NP400 at any comparable rate for way less hassle.

 

[Masamoto Kaos]

If doing edge sharpening, Shapton PRO 1.5k is a good starting stone, no need to go any lower unless your edge is DULL. 1.5k can reset edge but will take a bit. Shapton PRO 2k is like 3k-4k, refined tooth finish. The Shapton 5k is a love or hate stone.

My 2 suggestions,
SG500/2000 or 3000
Or
Shapton PRO 1.5k/2k or 5k.

You do need to invest in #140 Atoma diamond plate to flatten these stones eventually. Everyone has their preference.

If going Naniwa, 800/3000 is a great combo. Depending on your experience, 800 isn't too fast nor too slow, I think that's a good thing for a beginner stone. It gives sharpener more control while metal not being wasted too fast. There are so much informations I can go on about stones but I can say this. Do not go into a rabbit hole. Once you accept any recommendations from one of us on here, stick with it. Expensive stones don't make the knife sharper, the skills does. Experienced sharpeners can make the edge REALLLY sharp off of a 200grit stone than an inexperienced sharpeners who can't make it sharp off of 1k. It's all about angle control. No matter what angles it came with, if you set an angle, stay at that angle and be consistent. Sorry if I am rambling on.

Definitely start with Shapton 1.5k, I love the stone as my starting stone, I finished with a quick strop on Kata 8k. Then clean off edge with plain denim. It works for me.

Thanks for sharing, really appreciate it. How would you compare Chosera 400 & 800 combo with SG 320 and SP 1500?

 

[Michael Browning]

Thanks for sharing, really appreciate it. How would you compare Chosera 400 & 800 combo with SG 320 and SP 1500?

2 very different stones. I wouldn't look too much into grits difference between those 2. People like Naniwa for their feedbacks, consistency and auditory. Same goes for Shapton. It's more of a preference thing. Both are good, I like Shapton because it's resonates with me. That doesn't mean Suehiro, Naniwa or any other brands are bad. For example, people loves Suehiro Rika, (the 5k but is actually 3k in grit and polished like 5k, unique stone) buttery, pleasant feedback. Ouka 3k, popular stopping grit, I have read many actually like this stone. Suehiro 320, love and hate, soft, and fast from what I have read. Suehiro Cerax 1k seems to hold its own, it's still a popular stone, feedbacks, and speed. I have it but haven't used it. I should soon just for the heck of it. All in all, any of those will do you solid. Phew, I rambled on again .

Suehiro Cerax 1k/Ouka 3k or Rika 5k all are soakers.

Shapton Glass 500 or PRO 1k-1.5k/SG2k or PRO 2k all are splash and go.

Naniwa 800/3000 all are splash and go.

In due time, Atoma #140.

When it's time to thin and reset bevels, Shapton 500 usually do the job, but if severely thinning, then Shapton Glass 220 or 320. Same applies with PRO 220/320. Atoma #140 a must to keep the surface flat.

Usually you'd want to condition stones with Atoma #140 to rid off some "coating" on the stones to reach the full potential of sharpening experience.

 

[Masamoto Kaos]

2 very different stones. I wouldn't look too much into grits difference between those 2. People like Naniwa for their feedbacks, consistency and auditory. Same goes for Shapton. It's more of a preference thing. Both are good, I like Shapton because it's resonates with me. That doesn't mean Suehiro, Naniwa or any other brands are bad. For example, people loves Suehiro Rika, (the 5k but is actually 3k in grit and polished like 5k, unique stone) buttery, pleasant feedback. Ouka 3k, popular stopping grit, I have read many actually like this stone. Suehiro 320, love and hate, soft, and fast from what I have read. Suehiro Cerax 1k seems to hold its own, it's still a popular stone, feedbacks, and speed. I have it but haven't used it. I should soon just for the heck of it. All in all, any of those will do you solid. Phew, I rambled on again .

Suehiro Cerax 1k/Ouka 3k or Rika 5k all are soakers.

Shapton Glass 500 or PRO 1k-1.5k/SG2k or PRO 2k all are splash and go.

Naniwa 800/3000 all are splash and go.

In due time, Atoma #140.

When it's time to thin and reset bevels, Shapton 500 usually do the job, but if severely thinning, then Shapton Glass 220 or 320. Same applies with PRO 220/320. Atoma #140 a must to keep the surface flat.

Usually you'd want to condition stones with Atoma #140 to rid off some "coating" on the stones to reach the full potential of sharpening experience.

Thank you very much for the feedback. Damn this auditory thing always comes up when people talk about Chosera . I guess I need to get at least one to understand what they are talking about. I’ve been practicing on Sharp Pebble stones to enhance my mussel memory, didn’t think much about the stone’s feedback at the time .

 

[Michael Browning]

Thank you very much for the feedback. Damn this auditory thing always comes up when people talk about Chosera . I guess I need to get at least one to understand what they are talking about. I’ve been practicing on Sharp Pebble stones to enhance my mussel memory, didn’t think much about the stone’s feedback at the time .

I am deaf, so I go by the feel and work 10x harder on muscle memory when sharpening. I just do what works for me besides anything auditory

 

[Jovidah]

I believe most alox based stones should be pretty similar in handling stuff like hap40 and sg2...I would prefer diamond for either, but traditional will still do fine

Not necessarily:
https://www.toolsfromjapan.com/wordpress/?p=713