Covid: the shape of things to come

[juice]

It looks like Covid is starting to burn itself out, doesn’t look like the mRNA vaccines were very effective either along with the masks and lockdowns

I'd just like to thank you for providing so many laughs in this thread, it's been great. #DunningKrugerPersonified

 

[Michi]

On top of that all the pharmaceutical companies do not want to release the research data and findings for those vaccinations, they don’t want the information to be released for 50 to 75 years for some strange reason…

And, as usual, no source.

Vaccinations are ineffective for mutating viruses

You really don't get it, do you? The vaccines are not ineffective. Someone who is vaccinated is 10 times less likely to be hospitalised, and 16 times less likely to die. How many dead people do you think we would have by now if it were not for the vaccine?

Even with Omicron, the existing vaccines do provide protection against severe disease. And, before you point it out, I am aware that protection is not perfect.

Yes, the virus mutates. So what else is new? We've known that viruses mutate for decades.

Infinite vaccinations isn’t going to solve anything at any point, infinite lockdowns isn’t going to solve anything at any point, all the cloth over your face all the time isn’t going to solve anything either

Sure thing. We'll just all take our masks off, stop getting vaccinated, and pretend that all is well. So that we can watch people die by the millions instead of by the tens of thousands. What a most excellent idea! I'm sure the economy won't notice millions of people going missing…

 

[ReiHamono]

It’s concerning that the UK keeps having all these issues with such incredibly high vaccination rates masks and etc. The people being hospitalized are vaccinated, not promising at all


Scotland has vaccinated 91% of those aged 12 and over with at least one dose, while Wales has reached 90%, England 89% and Northern Ireland 87%.

Second doses are also being rolled out, with all nations reaching about 80% of over-12s so far.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833

 

[Michi]

How many times does this need to be said? The vaccines are not that good at preventing infection with Omicron. They are still quite good at preventing severe illness though.

The vaccines do not prevent all illness. Hence, with 90% of people vaccinated, it is no surprise that many of the hospital cases are vaccinated. Heck, what do you expect when hardly anyone unvaccinated is left?

Have you ever asked yourself how many people would be in hospital if we had no vaccines? I’m guessing that you haven’t.

 

[spaceconvoy]

What are y'all expecting? That he'll just say, "Oh gosh, I never thought of it that way, you completely changed my mind!" Then again, what am I expecting... I'll try to imagine these sisyphean comments as happy.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

Personable responsibility is a big part of the equation. Wearing a mask indoors in public areas.

In Asia it's looked at as normal if someone chooses to wear a mask. Washing your hands before touching your face. Another reason a mask works. For almost two years we we have
had public indoor mask mandate. Any store kids at school. Even the tourist just go with the
flow.

 

[M1k3]

"But the mask doesn't really protect myself from getting it."

No ****! But it does protect you from spreading it to me. You know, personal responsibility and all.

 

[Michi]

personal responsibility

What's that? Could you introduce me?

 

[Noxion]

I have my booster shot scheduled now.

I've received it already. (40 years old). 3x BioNTech (mRNA)
The first shot: 3 days of severe local muscular pain
second one: local sensitivity on pressure
third: no pain or sensitivity; however, severe chill during the night; I needed three blankets to stay warm during the night. I almost froze since the body temperature regulation went askew.

The problem is that the current "vaccine" is based on the original viral strain. Now we have Omicron, which is a mix of all the mutated viral strains that came after the original. Three shots of mRNA can therefore offer only a partial immunity. Which in turn means that the infection will spread (especially since Omicron is highly transmissible), lots of people will suffer from a severe infection and all those that are more at risk (for various medical reasons) will be without any real surety.
Two shots of mRNA are barely any protection and the share of the population with 3 shots is very low; which means a huge epidemic wave and hospitals than can offer only the emergency care (which has a huge impact on all other not Covid patients).

Have in mind that most of the world does not have access to mRNA "vaccines". China?
International trade and supply issues are a certainty. The economy might tank.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

Medical grade mask, I wear glasses. After touching door knobs or other things at different types of stores, I wipe the steering wheel, shifter knob & my hands with disinfect
gel. Then I take off my mask.

In two years no cough, congestion, nothing.

Before Covid would get sick at least once a year taking no precaution. Early on when read about persons who got Sars could have permanent lung damage, and other medical problems because of the virus we took it serious.

Being seniors why take the risk. Don't take breathing for granted even if an old fart

 

[Michi]

Influenza deaths in Australia were at 1,181 in 2017, 148 in 2018, and 902 in 2019. In 2020, we had 36 deaths, and in 2021, zero deaths.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australia-records-zero-flu-deaths-over-past-12-mon
In 2019, we had 313,033 cases. In 2020, there were fewer than 20,000 cases. In 2021 (up until August), there were 484.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-16/queensland-what-happened-to-the-flu-in-2021/100456616
That's all because masks and social distancing don't work.

 

[MarcelNL]

Madness is repeating and spreading arguments that are not fact checked.

Nothing personal but 'm growing tired of hearing the same 'challenge everything' nonsense that is regurgitated over and over, and always without any serious data reference or the person repeating it doubting any of the statements.

A while ago someone sent me an 'alarming' video he received from god knows what source in which the FDA panel unanimously decided against boosters because they were 'dangerous'....it's an 8 hour or so session on YT....a minor oversight was that there were no data to make any decision on, status of the data was two weeks into the first booster study in Israel...slides with conclusions saying 'at this point the data do not support a decision to start boostering'

One or two FDA panel sessions later, at that point to be found on YT too; a unanimous vote FOR booster shots with good safety data.

 

[MarcelNL]

Medical grade mask, I wear glasses. After touching door knobs or other things at different types of stores, I wipe the steering wheel, shifter knob & my hands with disinfect
gel. Then I take off my mask.

In two years no cough, congestion, nothing.

Before Covid would get sick at least once a year taking no precaution. Early on when read about persons who got Sars could have permanent lung damage, and other medical problems because of the virus we took it serious.

Being seniors why take the risk. Don't take breathing for granted even if an old fart

Good for you!

If it were not for a 5 year old in the house I'm pretty sure we'd also gone without any cold, flu or otherwise.
(right now I'm still deaf in one ear from a hand-me-down upper airway infection)

 

[MarcelNL]

"But the mask doesn't really protect myself from getting it."

No ****! But it does protect you from spreading it to me. You know, personal responsibility and all.

I dare say that a decent mask when used properly (great word BTW) protects wearer and others at the same time...problem with masks is that they are used for way too long at a time and many DIY masks have questionable filter capacity to begin with. If all people would pay attention to good mask hygiene and replace/desinfect them often enough their effectiveness would increase quite substantially. Especially now with Omikron on the loose!

 

[Noxion]

It's all about activism.
Mass migrations to Europe; open borders movement. Green agenda; let's shut down nuclear, no burning anything. id the sun shines and wind blows there is electricity, otherwise you leave the work and go home. Electric cars; cost doesn't matter: even better, use carts as in middle ages. Yet, all these activists expect to leave a comfortable life with everything the modern world has to offer; the "state" will pay for it.
Now that France had to shut down a few modern nuclear power plants due to technical problems and the electricity price has gone supernova, Germany is also permanently closing 3 nuclear plants at the end of December, the activitist will have a feast. Electric cars and heat pumps are a must.

Same pattern with the anti Covid crowd.
I tried to explain to a few people with university degrees in engineering why the mRNA platform is far better than the old vaccines. My comment at the end of the talk?
In Victorian era the people thought you could call ghost to manifest with electricity and bring dead to life.

 

[user 16756]

It's all about activism.
Mass migrations to Europe; open borders movement. Green agenda; let's shut down nuclear, no burning anything. id the sun shines and wind blows there is electricity, otherwise you leave the work and go home. Electric cars; cost doesn't matter: even better, use carts as in middle ages. Yet, all these activists expect to leave a comfortable life with everything the modern world has to offer; the "state" will pay for it.
Now that France had to shut down a few modern nuclear power plants due to technical problems and the electricity price has gone supernova, Germany is also permanently closing 3 nuclear plants at the end of December, the activitist will have a feast. Electric cars and heat pumps are a must.

Same pattern with the anti Covid crowd.
I tried to explain to a few people with university degrees in engineering why the mRNA platform is far better than the old vaccines. My comment at the end of the talk?
In Victorian era the people thought you could call ghost to manifest with electricity and bring dead to life.

my guy no comment on any position but you literally just listed a ton of completely unrelated topics not only to covid but to each other and you're really giving off this sort of vibe

 

[Noxion]

my guy no comment on any position but you literally just listed a ton of completely unrelated topics not only to covid but to each other and you're really giving off this sort of vibe

The personal profiles of many of those involved in listed activism follow certain general traits. What topic did a certain activist choose as his field of action is of course different / unrelated. There were some published articles regarding this very topic in Germany. The public secrity forces also profiled and found a pattern of behavior.

As for your picture; order is making sense of what seems like chaos.

 

[MarcelNL]

@Noxion ; As much as I believe what you say about similar traits across activists I too fail to see how all of the areas you mention have more in common than activism in some form playing a role.

'professional activism does exist, similar to 'full time' rioters, and for sure there likely is some cross contamination (pun intended) yet the majority of self acclaimed anti vaxxers are people who distrust government and or pharma and hesitate to get vaccinated.

Our mind is very good at connecting dots, even where there are none...I try to be cautious of making order in what might well just be chaos

 

[daveb]

Ntxt

 

[user 16756]

Ntxt

this would work a lot better if it were a minion IMO

 

[dAtron]

It’s concerning that the UK keeps having all these issues with such incredibly high vaccination rates masks and etc. The people being hospitalized are vaccinated, not promising at all


Scotland has vaccinated 91% of those aged 12 and over with at least one dose, while Wales has reached 90%, England 89% and Northern Ireland 87%.

Second doses are also being rolled out, with all nations reaching about 80% of over-12s so far.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833

We haven't had any issues since last January.

Omicron seems to be concerning at the moment because it is not affected by the astrazeneca vaccine and a majority of our population is vaccinated with that. It spreads at least twice faster than delta and it can reinfect people who already had a previous infections with other variant. Having said that the omicron hotspot is London and our national hospitalisation rate is manageable at the moment.

One thing is for sure is that vaccines have broken the link between infection and hospitalisation. Last year at the highest daily infection rate, daily hospitalisations were at approx 4k mark now they are at the 900 mark.

You can find more information about omicron in the Uk in technical briefings 31 and 32 in the link below.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/investigation-of-sars-cov-2-variants-technical-briefings

 

[user 16756]

ok when I say this I am just an angry anonymous person on the internet. when the white house says it it's a problem:

(yes this is real). the **** is this? hello you are supposed to be the president of the US not the president of the vaccinated US.

 

[M1k3]

ok when I say this I am just an angry anonymous person on the internet. when the white house says it it's a problem:

View attachment 156966

(yes this is real). the **** is this? hello you are supposed to be the president of the US not the president of the vaccinated US.

I don't know what to say. I mean, unvaccinated. If you catch covid, no matter the strain, you'll probably get sick. Which sucks. And if severe enough, hospitalized. Or die. Which for the unvaccinated is more likely. Not sure what in the statement is so polarizing?

"How dare the White House not sugar coat the pandemic?"

 

[MarcelNL]

is it for real? I mean, it cannot be...can it? Show me the link so I can see for myself if this is the next POTUS gone mad

Edit: I now see where it came from, it was a PART of a speech, and in that context I see little wrong with it as it is quite factual.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...g-with-members-of-the-covid-19-response-team/

 

[M1k3]

is it for real? I mean, it cannot be...can it? Show me the link so I can see for myself if this is the next POTUS gone mad

Edit: I now see where it came from, it was a PART of a speech, and in that context I see little wrong with it as it is quite factual.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...g-with-members-of-the-covid-19-response-team/

Even then, it's not a statement of "No jab? **** off and die."

 

[user 16756]

is it for real? I mean, it cannot be...can it? Show me the link so I can see for myself if this is the next POTUS gone mad

Edit: I now see where it came from, it was a PART of a speech, and in that context I see little wrong with it as it is quite factual.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...g-with-members-of-the-covid-19-response-team/

I read the rest of it.

I am unconvinced. First of all, I'll agree to put aside matters of whether or not other folks will see the whole context (because I did because I verified it) for a minute. I just want to focus on the messaging here. For all of the people arguing that scolding convinces people to act a certain way, I dont normally agree, but we're just talking about person to person stuff here. When an administration that is trying to get everyone vaccinated does this, it's reprehensible.

Furthermore:

1. IDGAF about the "economy" or "normalcy" and saying that's why we should be getting vaccinated instead of, I dunno, THE IMMENSE HUMAN COST?! is awful
2. What is the administration doing for people who dont have cushy office jobs where they can just stroll down to the Walgreens and get their shot? You know at my gig if someone feels under the weather from their booster they just take the day off. Just let your manager know, no big deal. Great, what about the people working retail? Food service? The US is mostly at-will; you could be fired just for insisting you take the time off to get the booster much less recover.
3. People still don't believe it's "free" because things in the US arent free. "Free" tests here means you buy them (they are very expensive btw) and you submit a reimbursement claim to your private insurer. That's not free. My time is valuable, and also many people in the US cant afford the costs of the tests. That's why the lines in NYC and DC today are hours long for on-site testing. Many Americans cant afford these. The administration is not only not doing anything to mitigate this, this is their plan. Congrats, profits for the insurers and manufactures and maybe people just wont get tested. Cool.

 

[user 16756]

I don't know what to say. I mean, unvaccinated. If you catch covid, no matter the strain, you'll probably get sick. Which sucks. And if severe enough, hospitalized. Or die. Which for the unvaccinated is more likely. Not sure what in the statement is so polarizing?

"How dare the White House not sugar coat the pandemic?"

Im not asking the white house to sugar coat the pandemic.

What Im saying is that you have a duty as president to act at a higher standard than normal people. I outlined my thoughts on why I think this is heinously tone deaf in the context of how this administration is handling covid. If you still disagree that's fine and again I really think it's ok for social pressure from individuals I just dont buy into the idea that as long as the people suffering "deserve it" they really ought to suffer you know?

 

[MarcelNL]

Even then, it's not a statement of "No jab? **** off and die."

True, yet it would be a bit blunt to issue a statement saying Omocron is here and we'll protect the economy and schools for all vaccinated folks but F^%& all the unvaccinated.

It's illustrative of how propaganda works though, take a snippet of information and spin it ever so subtle...


rest of the message: If anything you can fault him for slightly poor public reading skills

"But there’s good news: If you’re vaccinated and you had your booster shot, you’re protected from severe illness and death — period.

Number two, booster shots work.

Three, boosters are free, safe, and convenient.

About 60 million people have one — have been boosted. So, go get your shot today. Go get boosted if you’ve had your first two shots. If you haven’t, go get your first shot. It’s time. It’s time. It’s past time.

And we’re going to protect our economic recovery if we do this. We’re going to keep schools and businesses open if we do this. And I want to see everyone around enjoy that. I want to see them enjoy the fact that they’re able to be in school, that businesses are open and the holidays are coming.

So, get your booster shot. It’s critically important.

And if you haven’t — if you haven’t gotten your booster shot, get your first shot. We’re in a situation where we have 83 percent of the American people who’ve gotten one shot — 12 years and older. Four hundred thousand shots per day now. Two hundred and two are fully vacc- — two hundred and two million are fully vaccinated.

Fifty-seven -– excuse me –- five hundred and seventy –- excuse me –- I don’t want to read -– I’m not sure I got the right number. The — the total number of boosters is what?

DR. FAUCI: Fifty-seven million.

THE PRESIDENT: Fifty-seven million boosters — one million a day.

So — but the whole point is: Omicron is here, it’s going to start to spread much more rapidly in the beginning of the year, and the only real protection is to get your shots. If you get one shot — if you haven’t gotten it yet — it’ll help.

If you’re at a point where you have everything, including your booster, you’re in really good shape.

So, move now. Move now.

Thank you all very much. '

 

[MarcelNL]

Im not asking the white house to sugar coat the pandemic.

What Im saying is that you have a duty as president to act at a higher standard than normal people. I outlined my thoughts on why I think this is heinously tone deaf in the context of how this administration is handling covid. If you still disagree that's fine and again I really think it's ok for social pressure from individuals I just dont buy into the idea that as long as the people suffering "deserve it" they really ought to suffer you know?

The administration is offering vaccines, there is no 'deserve to suffer'in any part of the statement, it is an open invitation with a bit of a strong nudge to get vaccinated...which IMO is perfectly spot on in the light of Omicron.

 

[user 16756]

The administration is offering vaccines, there is no 'deserve to suffer'in any part of the statement, it is an open invitation with a bit of a strong nudge to get vaccinated...which IMO is perfectly spot on in the light of Omicron.

I think you're being charitable here. I can't say you're wrong, only that I disagree. I think this is the sort of messaging that nominally we were supposed to be getting away from, in favor of more "practical" solutions.

We are all mad. I've not hidden how much distaste I have for the people who could safely get vaxxed and haven't, and that I think they are in fact responsible for a lot of what's happening.

That said, it is my personal opinion that it is not the role of the government to engage in this sort of thing. Every day it becomes more apparent that the new boss is the literal exact same as the old boss.

And you will agree, will you not, that the way I posted it (which yes is only one part of it) is the way it's going to get messaged EVERYWHERE right?