Dalstrong and the dreaded Pakistani damascus steel

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NO ChoP!

Old Head
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Ughhh...

This crap is taking over! I am seeing this Chinese Dalstrong and the likes everywhere, even in my own club kitchen! Even worse, these Pakistani knife sets made of unnamed "damascus steel" that wont take or hold an edge, and are ground like an ax. I am in a bunch of Chef type Facebook groups and such, and they have become completely inundated with this crap! I can't fight this battle alone! I need help!!!!?#$!#?!!!
 
But, but, but - if everyone bought "good" knives the prices would be too high. Next up a dammy Kiwi available as kiritsuke or usuba:cool::cool::cool:
 
Well, I have bad news. Old Dalstrong knives were not bad at all. They've lost it through. Some Chinese knives aren't bad at all. I've been testing a few and some performed above traditional Germans by a big margin in terms of... in any actually. It's silly when a cheap Chinese knife has spot on balance and good edge retention, but that's the reality. What happens is that while some are good, most are well overpriced and fake. It's really hard to recommend one.

On the other hand, in the last 5 years or so, I haven't found one paki knife that wasn't pure crap. I wouldn't use one even if paid.
 
I can get behind Kiwi. I have a guy in my kitchen that buys a couple every month. He sharpens them on a 1k King almost daily, and tosses them regularly.

I can get behind Chinese cleavers, as they aren't pretending to be something they are not.

The term "it's made with Japanese steel" really burns me. Buy a Japanese knife! Maybe 1 minute of research would guide someone to a better purchase. Granted, it wont have a fancy plastic sheath, stamped damascus pattern, or giant 1/2" damascus pin...
 
What is the fuzz about japanese steel.... Why do Shigefusa/Heiji/Iwasaki use swedish steel ? Why Japanese Steel producers buy the iron in europe ?

Chinese knifes, sooner or later will kill at least the modern japanese ones (Shun etc...) by price and performance.. The Pocket knife market has nearly lost against china right now.

Greets Sebastian.
 
parbaked said:
Because it helps cheap knives that are made in China pretend to be Japanese.
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Now i understand it is like the samurai or the super famous swordsmith that works for KAI right ? :) ....
One guy sitting on his forge and makes knifes one after each other ;) ....

Master Deng and of Coarse Kiyoshi kato are the only two that do their san mai by hand .... 5 € to 1-12k€ Holy moly.... I think i take the master deng for 5€ with less F&F and better edge retention...

Greets Sebastian.
 
Sharpchef said:
What is the fuzz about japanese steel.... Why do Shigefusa/Heiji/Iwasaki use swedish steel ? Why Japanese Steel producers buy the iron in europe ?

Chinese knifes, sooner or later will kill at least the modern japanese ones (Shun etc...) by price and performance.. The Pocket knife market has nearly lost against china right now.

Greets Sebastian.
Click to expand...
Maybe. I think your underestimating the will of the US in moving trade away from China. If chinese knives ever became a serious contender, there will be a AD/CVD (anti dumping tariffs) motion against them which would put duties up into the 150% range.
 
AD/CVD can`t help if they produce knives that can compare to maybe KAI Shun in F&F, Steel, HT for 25 - 35 Dollars ... (retail price)... As a dealer you get them way cheaper (but have to order 100 ...)

Greets Sebastian.
 
kayman67 said:
Well, I have bad news. Old Dalstrong knives were not bad at all. They've lost it through. Some Chinese knives aren't bad at all. I've been testing a few and some performed above traditional Germans by a big margin in terms of... in any actually. It's silly when a cheap Chinese knife has spot on balance and good edge retention, but that's the reality. What happens is that while some are good, most are well overpriced and fake. It's really hard to recommend one.

On the other hand, in the last 5 years or so, I haven't found one paki knife that wasn't pure crap. I wouldn't use one even if paid.
Click to expand...

China does a very good job with AUS-10.
 
suntravel said:
https://angele.en.alibaba.com/

modern industrial production and heattreating, they are sold under lot of different names and incorrect steel description.

Grinds more on the thick side.

Regards

Uwe
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I am more than a little prejudiced but I ****ing loath these companies. They take foreign companies capital, training and IP, then flog a cloned product on the side. At least buy a decent brand like 18words /shiba Zi. Their chef knives aren’t as good as the above because -they didn’t steal them- .

Seriously if you like nice things, don’t buy cloned chinese crap. There are a lot of really good Mainland companies developing their own ip. Support them, or a Vietnamese equivalent
 
Thats exactly the way Japan came to modern technology, only some years earlier ;)

Regards

Uwe
 
suntravel said:
Thats exactly the way Japan came to modern technology, only some years earlier ;)

Regards

Uwe
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From a guy who works in sourcing in China: No, it really wasn’t. Japan and Korea received huge numbers of factory plans then used them to advanced their manufacturing. There were very few direct direct Japanese clones, but a lot of generic products that frequently became better than the original (s e Honda motorbikes and Toyota cars).
 
When I was a young lad - a long time ago - "Made in Japan" had all the negative connotations that "Made in China" has recently. IME it was overcome largely by the quality automobiles that Japan started (and continues) to produce today. I'll not be surprised to see China become recognized for quality in the future - but I'm not going there 2day.
 
My fear is that the loss of craftsmanship will inevitably befall Japanese knives in particular and craft knives generally. It’s already happening to a serious degree and it need not necessarily be the Chinese or Korean of Pakistani manufacturers that are totally responsible for it. Have you examined Myabi knives manufactured in the Zwilling factory in Japan? They are seriously good knives and are produced at a rate and price that traditional Japanese knife smiths have trouble competing with. How long will it be before Zwilling opens an equivalent plant in Korea? Prices of craft knives will continue to rise simply based on a decreasing supply and growing demand. I say enjoy what we have now in terms of craft knives ... it’s not going to last.
 
I dunno. There’s plenty of us here that will pay $500+ for well crafted handmade stuff. I only see demand increasing actually. The cheapo sub $100 market is a whole different ball game.
 
Any particular Myabi you’re asking about? I’ve sharpened co workers dammy Myabi knives. I guess the ones that are meant to complete w shun classic but cost $40 or so less. Didn’t like the steel at all. CCK and Dexter Russel are my preferred cheapo knives haha. I much prefer sharpening Dexter over shun, Myabi or global...I guess those are fighting words but it’s true.
 
Lol ... I was thinking of Myabi Black (HRC 67-69) or Birchwood (HRC 62), but really any of the Zwilling Myabi series. I would say that they are made more for home use than commercial use. Factory made, excellent f&f, priced $200-$400.
 
Brian Weekley said:
Lol ... I was thinking of Myabi Black (HRC 67-69) or Birchwood (HRC 62), but really any of the Zwilling Myabi series. I would say that they are made more for home use than commercial use. Factory made, excellent f&f, priced $200-$400.
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No experience...I’d rather grab a Sukenari, Blazen or Takamura HSPS pro.
 
Brian Weekley said:
Lol ... I was thinking of Myabi Black (HRC 67-69) or Birchwood (HRC 62), but really any of the Zwilling Myabi series. I would say that they are made more for home use than commercial use. Factory made, excellent f&f, priced $200-$400.
Click to expand...

I never really understood the hate for some knives. I know proper chefs loving Global or Glestain. Not because they get paid for. They don't. Not because they might not have or use something different. They genuinely love them.
I saw one Yoshihiro Hap 40 taking the beating of a life time and actually I got to respect Hap 40 and was so impressed, I got one for myself.
Birchwood is well done even in terms of geometry. That handle might not have been the best choice, but that's the signature. Not sure about the Black. I've seen people struggle with either usage or sharpening or both.
 
Thinking of it and reading the forum, it's really interesting how some knives or alloys are not liked by some, loved by others, how some give a lot of grief to some people, but not to others. Looks like a middle truth thing going on.
 
I am happy to see a new guy in the kitchen pull out a Shun or Miyabi or even Global. At least they have interest in quality steel. The old dogs will rub off, and they will have a new legit gyuto within a year. Now the kids pulling out a full set of Mercer...they may be a bit harder to hook.

As a side note, Mac is, and always will be, my go-to basic production line.
 
Dear country of China,
If you’re reading this right now, please make a cheaper crappy version of the Mac Pro line. They would make great house knives and they sharpen up just fine.
Sincerely,
Labor of Love
 
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