First impressions & comparisons: Morihei Hishiboshi 500, 1000, 4000

[Kai]

Agreed, 4k works great for me as a pure splash and go. Definitely benefits from a little atoma-generated slurry per recommendation by Kitchen Samurai.

I used the Shapton Kuromaku series from 120 up till 8K to make chipped VG10 greate again. This was a task that Morihei could not have done

Is this because the Morihei series is missing low grits or do they not play nicely with VG10? Have only used with carbons at present.

 

[Hiomakivi]

Agreed, 4k works great for me as a pure splash and go. Definitely benefits from a little atoma-generated slurry per recommendation by Kitchen Samurai.

Is this because the Morihei series is missing low grits or do they not play nicely with VG10? Have only used with carbons at present.

I was repairing a chipped Kai Nakiri and wanted to test my new Kuromaku 120; typically I use my Naniwa workhorse to fix damaged knives

 

[Kitchen-Samurai]

I was repairing a chipped Kai Nakiri and wanted to test my new Kuromaku 120; typically I use my Naniwa workhorse to fix damaged knives


View attachment 68794

That‘s awesome, I would love to have such a horizontal wheel...!
How did the 120 work for you?

 

[Hiomakivi]

How did the 120 work for you?

I had not previously used such a low grit as Kuromaku 120, so I did not know what to expect. I have to admit I was at least a little bit surprised to find out how fast it was and how easy it was to work with. I can recommend it to anyone who needs to fix knives.

 

[childermass]

Let’s hijack this thread for a short while, I think this fits here nicely.

This is only a first impression too.

Got my stones this week and had time to try some polishing. I believe Labour of love asked about the finish on a wide bevel and I thought maybe I can show something. The blade in the pictures needs a lot more attention to be pretty, the factory scratches are really deep and there are still lots of low spots. Also I am not a polishing pro, actually I’m too lazy for that, but I think I can give you an idea about the finish they are leaving.

I will have to agree that the color of the 500 sucks [emoji4]

Finish is not too bad after raising some slurry:

The 1k makes a brighter finish:

And finally the 4k finishes with a semi mirror on core steel but that’s hard to capture:

Sorry for the crappy pictures.
Feeling is nice on all three stones, especially the 4k is buttery smooth.

 

[labor of love]

You’re speaking my language here. Those finishes look great too.
Thanks for the photos.

 

[Kai]

I have seen several photos online of much whiter colored 500 and 1k stones. Do these actually exist? That 500 is.... dark.

 

[Kitchen-Samurai]

Let’s hijack this thread for a short while, I think this fits here nicely.

Thanks for adding your thoughts and some wide-bevel pictures, that makes this thread a bit more comprehensive!

The 500 continues to grow on me, it works great and doesn’t dish too quickly. Still, a lighter color would have been nice!

 

[labor of love]

I’ve reread this thread maybe a dozen times at this point trying to decide if I want the morihei 4K or the morihei 6k or maybe both.
I did recently let go of my chosera 3k opting for a 4K stone instead. I just don’t like finishing with something lower than 4K.
If anybody prefers the morihei 6k over the 4K I’d love to hear your feedback. Also, if anyone has a 6k and can break down how it compares to other 6k stones I would appreciate it.
At the moment I’m leaning towards picking up the 4K but I’m still undecided.
Thoughts?

 

[zizirex]

I’ve reread this thread maybe a dozen times at this point trying to decide if I want the morihei 4K or the morihei 6k or maybe both.
I did recently let go of my chosera 3k opting for a 4K stone instead. I just don’t like finishing with something lower than 4K.
If anybody prefers the morihei 6k over the 4K I’d love to hear your feedback. Also, if anyone has a 6k and can break down how it compares to other 6k stones I would appreciate it.
At the moment I’m leaning towards picking up the 4K but I’m still undecided.
Thoughts?

I have the 6k, and it is still my fav finishing stone. My comparison of it with other 6k stone is with King and Arashiyama, King 6k is pretty fice finish that like actually, but it's so slow cutting and dishes like crazy. Arashiyama is a nice stone IF working correctly. Arashiyama cuts pretty fast and leaves a nice finish and contrast on carbon steel, but not so much on stainless. the reason I said if working properly, is that this stone is on the grey area between Soaking and Splash and go, it will soak up when you use it after a while, easy to clog up when it's too dry and very easy to crack (like other Imanishi stones..). Arashiyama could get really nice edge quality but it takes longer than other stones (you need the surface to be well hydrated and the mud has been consistently released to help polish the edge).

the reason why it's my fave stones is that it cuts fast, it doesn't dish like crazy, the tactile feeling is kinda nice medium stones, it creates a very nice contrast & polish, and have a slightly toothier edge than the Arashiyama (Good enough for fatty meat cutting).

The 4k leaves a nicer contrast(I remember it produces hazier and darker Jigane) than the 6K, but I can't tell about the edge quality.

 

[labor of love]

I already own an arashiyama, maybe I should just grab a 4K morihei if the 6k and arashiyama serve similar purposes.

 

[zizirex]

I already own an arashiyama, maybe I should just grab a 4K morihei if the 6k and arashiyama serve similar purposes.

Go for it then, My arashiyama was cracked and split into 2 pieces. I managed to epoxy it on a piece of glass. that's why I bought it. I was going to buy the 4k this month, but I kinda fell into JNats Rabbit Hole...

 

[labor of love]

Okay, after much internal debate I’m going to get a morihei 4K, the question now for me is do I grab a morihei 1k as well or go get a chosera 800? They are basically the same price.
Already owned the chosera 800, already know it’s awesome, but I like trying new stuff so morihei 1k is tempting.
Anybody used both morihei 1k and chosera 800?

 

[Kitchen-Samurai]

Okay, after much internal debate I’m going to get a morihei 4K, the question now for me is do I grab a morihei 1k as well or go get a chosera 800? They are basically the same price.
Already owned the chosera 800, already know it’s awesome, but I like trying new stuff so morihei 1k is tempting.
Anybody used both morihei 1k and chosera 800?

As you can see above, I used both. What do you want it for? Sharpening the edge or finishing the secondary bevel? Single bevel or double bevel knives? Anything specific you wanted to know?

 

[labor of love]

I don’t know how I forgot you already compared chosera 800 to morihei. I’ve read this thread a dozen times.
Yeah like 99% of the time I would use the stone for edge sharpening, shapton pro is already my go to mid grit but I’d like to mix it up with something completely different.
Sounds like morihei is more well rounded than chosera here-so morihei may be my winner.

 

[Kitchen-Samurai]

I don’t know how I forgot you already compared chosera 800 to morihei. I’ve read this thread a dozen times.
Yeah like 99% of the time I would use the stone for edge sharpening, shapton pro is already my go to mid grit but I’d like to mix it up with something completely different.
Sounds like morihei is more well rounded than chosera here-so morihei may be my winner.

Naturally, it is hard to predict which stone another person will like best. Hence, I can certainly understand that you want to try out other mid-grit stones. Personally, my priority is tactile feel, and, secondly, feedback. I am less concerned with speed, and, unless for specific applications, how the finish looks. The Morihei stone is a nice thick, semi splash&go stone which might excel with single/wide-bevel knives. However, this is a speculation from my side as I do not own true single bevel knives. For actual edge sharpening I prefer the pro 800. If the pro 800 still was made in a full 25mm thickness, and no cracking issues existed, I’d call it my all-time favorite mid-grit stone. And even with these issues, it’s still among my absolute favorites.

 

[panda]

does the 4k load at all?

 

[Kitchen-Samurai]

does the 4k load at all?

I haven‘t had any issues with loading so far. Hope this helps!

 

[kevin]

Here's a few close up photos of the Morihei 500
https://imgur.com/a/pLlKnLg

 

[josemartinlopez]

my priority is tactile feel, and, secondly, feedback. I am less concerned with speed, and, unless for specific applications, how the finish looks.

Kitchen-Samurai, I think I have the same priorities as you though think I may decide later that I want speed for quick touch ups before or after using a knife. Do you have further thoughts six months later, as you posted your amazingly detailed posts when the stones were brand new?

I'm trying to decide what to buy for a pair of first stones and am just confused between the excellent choices out there (Morihei, Naniwa, Shapton and Gesshin). I've only decided that I want splash and go.

 

[Kitchen-Samurai]

Kitchen-Samurai, I think I have the same priorities as you though think I may decide later that I want speed for quick touch ups before or after using a knife. Do you have further thoughts six months later, as you posted your amazingly detailed posts when the stones were brand new?

I'm trying to decide what to buy for a pair of first stones and am just confused between the excellent choices out there (Morihei, Naniwa, Shapton and Gesshin). I've only decided that I want splash and go.

Excellent follow-up question that i am happy to respond to. To sum it up very briefly: a) I still stand behind my initial posts, and b) I've kept the 4k, but sold the 500 and 1k.

Here are my thoughts for your case: If tactile feel and feedback are your main priorities, you may be better off with soaking stones. A great stone/stone set as e.g. the Gesshin soakers or the Cerax/Rika line can give you this. And many soakers can be stored in water permanently, so they're ready when you are. Just keep them in a small plastic container filled with water.
If you are set on slash&go stones, though, you'll need to make another decision. Do you want stones that still give excellent feel and feedback? In that case, you should look at the Naniwa Pro stones (esp. 800 & 3k). However, they are quite expensive and also delicate (they often develop cracks), so I wouldn't consider them beginner-friendly. If you don't want a delicate stone, you can look at Shapton Glass/Pro, and maybe Nanohone. However, the general consensus is that they are not quite as good in terms of tactile feel and feedback as the best soaking stones.

Also, I generally believe that a softer stone is better to learn on, since it clearly shows you when your are off angle (gouging into the stone).

My advice: if you can live with a soaking stone, go for the Gesshin 1000 XL or the Cerax 1000. Buy only one stone, learn the skill, and take it from there. If you can't get your knives sharp, it is not the stone, it is lack of skill. Those stones will give you excellent feedback and tactile feel, they are economical (at least when you don't have to import them), will last many years, work great with most kitchen knifes (double and single bevel), and are not prone to cracking.
Enjoy the journey!

 

[josemartinlopez]

many soakers can be stored in water permanently

Which ones are these? Also, if one goes the Naniwa Pro route, can I clarify why you recommend the 800 over the 1000 or 2000 to start with?

 

[Kitchen-Samurai]

Which ones are these? Also, if one goes the Naniwa Pro route, can I clarify why you recommend the 800 over the 1000 or 2000 to start with?

Usually, the manufacturer or distributor will advise on this. The Gesshin soakers for instance can be permasoaked. I have also permasoaked the Cerax 1000 for months without any issue, even though some people feel differently about this.
The 800 & 3k are usually considered as the best stones in the lineup, and I tend to agree. I have tested 400, 800, 1k, 3k, 5k.

 

[josemartinlopez]

Thanks! And using the 800 as your medium stone over 1000 or 2000 is perfectly fine and that's not too low a grit?

 

[labor of love]

Thanks! And using the 800 as your medium stone over 1000 or 2000 is perfectly fine and that's not too low a grit?

800 is totally fine to use as a mid grit. Infact today I went Chosera 800 to Oouchi with no problems.

 

[Kitchen-Samurai]

Thanks! And using the 800 as your medium stone over 1000 or 2000 is perfectly fine and that's not too low a grit?

Absolutely, the 800 would be a perfect mid-grit stone. In fact, most people consider the Naniwa grit rating system a bit off, and would rate the 800 more like a 1k or 1200. Don't get too hung up on the numbers though, the magic happens with your hands and arms, and the stones are less important than most people think (and this is coming from someone owning way too many stones...).

 

[kayman67]

I disagree. The right stones for what you want or need, will makes things a lot easier, better and sometimes can even be essential to get the job done.

 

[Kitchen-Samurai]

I disagree. The right stones for what you want or need, will makes things a lot easier, better and sometimes can even be essential to get the job done.

I am with you on that the right stones make things easier, better, and can sometimes even be essential to get the job done. That's partly why I have so many of them. However, especially when one tries to give advice to someone starting this hobby, I think it is crucial to stress that technique is the most important thing. If you buy any decent sharpening stone/stone set, but you can't get your kitchen knives sharp, it's not the stones...it's your technique. That's the point I wanted to make, because I have seen too many people getting this wrong. Including myself. Cheers!

 

[kayman67]

Even for this, I'm one of the guys considering that some stones are better suited than others to form proper techniques.

 

[ian]

Maybe it’s better advice to let Jose start to learn this for himself, tho. If you tell someone “you need 12 stones” at the beginning, that’s too intimidating. And the person may not be experienced enough to recognize in use that one stone is better suited for a certain task, either. I think telling someone to start with one stone is the best option. Then when they get fed up and feel their system is inefficient they can get more.

That said, @kayman67 is right that if you do a lot of sharpening you’ll eventually want more.