First sharpen of my R2 Koutetsu, straight to 4k stone?

[fourmations]

hi all

as in my previous thread (thanks always for the advice)
i have taken delivery of my rockstar 4k to go with my only other decent stone an SP1k,

its time to "man up" and sharpen my only J knife, a Shibata R2 gyuto
i've had it six months and been scared to take it to the SP1000 and have kept a really "good edge" with a ceramic rod
(i know...not a great idea but its been minimal and has worked)

im just thinking...considering its still performing very well although not near OOTB sharpness it certainly not blunt
should i take it to the SP1000 at all or just go with the SR4000?


many thanks

 

[aporigine]

hi all

as in my previous thread (thanks always for the advice)
i have taken delivery of my rockstar 4k to go with my only other decent stone an SP1k,

its time to "man up" and sharpen my only J knife, a Shibata R2 gyuto
i've had it six months and been scared to take it to the SP1000 and have kept a really "good edge" with a ceramic rod
(i know...not a great idea but its been minimal and has worked)

im just thinking...considering its still performing very well although not near OOTB sharpness it certainly not blunt
should i take it to the SP1000 at all or just go with the SR4000?


many thanks

Doing one side on the 1000 and the other on the 4k would be an approximation of what Shibata himself does.

 

[Kawa]

4000.
Does it not work?

1000 > 4000

 

[azn_knives_4l]

You almost surely have a micro-bevel at this point so this complicates things a little.

 

[fourmations]

i did bring up the different grits on each side subject before on the forum and the general concensus was that its not worth it

i asked Shibata about it at the time and got this reply....

Thank you for using Koutetsu.
If you purchased it more than 5 years ago, it was sharpened by 800 and 8000.
If within 5 years, 400 and 4000.

 

[fourmations]

You almost surely have a micro-bevel at this point so this complicates things a little.

perhaps, but my rod use has been very very gentle and at a very acute angle,
what do you suggest, its a laser and i'm certainly not even considering attempting to thin it as a novice

the folks here have said before that im being to nervous and to just get it on the stones slowly with a bit of care
and stop worrying so much, it was a big buy for me and a luxury so im apprehensive,

cheers

 

[azn_knives_4l]

perhaps, but my rod use has been very very gentle and at a very acute angle,
what do you suggest, its a laser and i'm certainly not even considering attempting to thin it as a novice

the folks here have said before that im being to nervous and to just get it on the stones slowly with a bit of care
and stop worrying so much

cheers

I agree to just do and get it over with. You can continue to maintain on the micro-bevel if it exists but sharpening below the micro-bevel is, at that point, a kind of thinning. I think you'll have some difficulty in removing the micro-bevel and flattening the edge bevel with just the 4k if you have this in mind. 1k would handle the same trivially. Personally, I would go 1k to flatten the bevel and take it from there.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

perhaps, but my rod use has been very very gentle and at a very acute angle,
what do you suggest, its a laser and i'm certainly not even considering attempting to thin it as a novice

the folks here have said before that im being to nervous and to just get it on the stones slowly with a bit of care
and stop worrying so much, it was a big buy for me and a luxury so im apprehensive,

cheers

Also, I suggest flattening the edge bevel with a 1k and this may sound like a lot but for me it would legit be 1 or 2 up and down scrubbing passes per side. No exaggeration. It's really that easy.

 

[fourmations]

Also, I suggest flattening the edge bevel with a 1k and this may sound like a lot but for me it would legit be 1 or 2 up and down scrubbing passes per side. No exaggeration. It's really that easy.

Also, I suggest flattening the edge bevel with a 1k and this may sound like a lot but for me it would legit be 1 or 2 up and down scrubbing passes per side. No exaggeration. It's really that easy.

would i be expecting a burr on those few passes?
as i said im a novice, ive done paper cutting edges on my globals with the sp1k but i know there are way softer (and wierd steel!)

 

[azn_knives_4l]

would i be expecting a burr on those few passes?
as i said im a novice, ive done paper cutting edges on my globals with the sp1k but i know there are way softer (and wierd steel!)

I sharpen to burr formation, yes, and this done in one or two passes per side assumes that

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

4000.
Does it not work?

1000 > 4000

Just do this. ^

 

[mengwong]

4000.
Does it not work?

1000 > 4000

Also, the polish from the 4000 will act like the Sharpie trick. If you have a loupe or scope you can then see how the 1000 mattes over the 4000.

Do open up the 4000 by lapping it though. Against the 1000 is ok if you have no dedicated flattener or nagura.

 

[Delat]

I'd just use the 4k unless you plan on changing the bevel angle or have chipping.

 

[aporigine]

perhaps, but my rod use has been very very gentle and at a very acute angle,
what do you suggest, its a laser and i'm certainly not even considering attempting to thin it as a novice

the folks here have said before that im being to nervous and to just get it on the stones slowly with a bit of care
and stop worrying so much, it was a big buy for me and a luxury so im apprehensive,

cheers

Try your 4000 and if you get a result — the knife did not yet need a full progression. Win.

If this works, it will have been a way to minimize metal removed while still restoring that nice edge.

 

[Benuser]

hi all

as in my previous thread (thanks always for the advice)
i have taken delivery of my rockstar 4k to go with my only other decent stone an SP1k,

its time to "man up" and sharpen my only J knife, a Shibata R2 gyuto
i've had it six months and been scared to take it to the SP1000 and have kept a really "good edge" with a ceramic rod
(i know...not a great idea but its been minimal and has worked)

im just thinking...considering its still performing very well although not near OOTB sharpness it certainly not blunt
should i take it to the SP1000 at all or just go with the SR4000?


many thanks

A very different advice here. Just what I would do in your situation.
I'm in general not very enthusiastic about factory edges. They rarely suit a blade's geometry, and often are weakened by buffing. Only when I'm sure the blade got a stone sharpening I'm willing to give it a try. So, the first thing I do is putting my own edge on it, making sure nothing is left from the original one. Starting with a 320, and start by some maintenance thinning to compensate for it.
In your case the actual edge is likely to be a superposition of different bevels due to the ceramic rod, also known as facetting. Get rid of it.
The SG2‐R2 I've seen weren't the easiest ones to sharpen. Getting it fully deburred expected a patient abrading through the entire progression.
I guess, I would start in your case with painting the edge with a sharpie, and start at the lowest angle with a 320. Little by little raising the spine, until a reasonable, rather conservative angle has been reached, and going on until you have an entirely clean bevel, without any paint or swarf on top. Check with a loupe. Only then flip sides and repeat.
With a laser I would aim for inclusive edge around 35°.
I would repeat and deburr on a 500. The first full deburring will take quite some time and is no fun.
Only go to a finer stone when the burr just flips without getting any smaller.
From there on, I would use a tight progression, essentially for deburring, by edge leading strokes. 1k; 2k; 4k. I probably would add 1 (one) edge trailing stroke on the 1k.
Use your loupe to check whether you're still reaching the very edge.

 

[Cliff]

I almost always put my own edge on a knife, but I think Shibata is different. Mine came with an outstanding edge that lasted ages.

 

[fourmations]

hi all

update.....

so i went at it with the 4000 to build a bit of confidence, did the sharpie thing which is very useful
i'm a novice and still a bit sketchy to be fair and am not 100% on keeping my angle,
it went well, raised a little burr, few deburr strokes on the stone and a finish on dry newspaper,
happy with the results, slicing newspaper with ease, tiny shreds, slow passes and all that,
not perfect, top third not as sharp as the rest, needs a bit of tuning
but as said i was overly anxious so happy with getting that monkey off my back,

many thanks for the help as always, still happy to help a newbie! kudos!!
shouts to Benuser and HHC who are names i recognise that have tolerated my newbie questions before

Benuser, thats all a bit nerve-wracking for me!! small steps for now! but noted solid advice!! i refer back to my posts often so
when im feeling braver i may take on your suggestions

many thanks y'all

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

hi all

update.....

so i went at it with the 4000 to build a bit of confidence, did the sharpie thing which is very useful
i'm a novice and still a bit sketchy to be fair and am not 100% on keeping my angle,
it went well, raised a little burr, few deburr strokes on the stone and a finish on dry newspaper,
happy with the results, slicing newspaper with ease, tiny shreds, slow passes and all that,
not perfect, top third not as sharp as the rest, needs a bit of tuning
but as said i was overly anxious so happy with getting that monkey off my back,

many thanks for the help as always, still happy to help a newbie! kudos!!
shouts to Benuser and HHC who are names i recognise that have tolerated my newbie questions before

Benuser, thats all a bit nerve-wracking for me!! small steps for now! but noted solid advice!! i refer back to my posts often so
when im feeling braver i may take on your suggestions

many thanks y'all

Good for you! It'll come. The tip is the most challenging for all of us. Just pay attention and let the marker and the edge tell you how it's going.

We're all newbies. Some of us are just more experienced newbies.

 

[aporigine]

Good for you! It'll come. The tip is the most challenging for all of us. Just pay attention and let the marker and the edge tell you how it's going.

We're all newbies. Some of us are just more experienced newbies.

I have Just The Tip Tuesdays.