Help me become addicted to Knives, Boards & Sharpening

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fork

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Hello guys,

I've always used rubbish blunt knives but after using a friends Global knife, I've finally had enough. I have an addictive personally and I love getting serious about things. I've just finished my torch collection, now it's time for knives.

I'd like recommendations for a general purpose knife, a board and a sharpening kit please, all for £200.

I've tried to answer questions below as best as possible, but please tell me if more information would help.

I appreciate any help. I've tried to read up before posting, but apologies in advance if I've committed some horrendous forum faux-pas.



LOCATION
What country are you in?
United Kingdom


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in
Chef's knife

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle or Japanese handle?
I have only ever used Western, but I'm planning to compare some knives in a shop. Could you please recommend one Western and additionally, one Japanese if at all possible.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
My current favourite knife is 6inches. I have small hands, maybe this plays a part in size preference

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Yes

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
£100-£130 would be nice, but I'll stretch to £150 if the extra £20 makes a substantial difference



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
in the following order (descending):
Chopping vegetables, Slicing vegetables, Slicing meat.
I NEVER (so far) do the following: cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones


What knife, if any, are you replacing?
none really. my best knife was a Sabatier 6" thing for ~£10, which got lost in a house move

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
finger point. I sometimes seem to use Hammer grip. I have tried to use pinch grip but couldnt get used to it. If its worth changing, I might force myself to change.

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
push cut

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Based on the options in your guide:
Aesthetics: I dont really care how it looks, although stain resistance might be good
Comfort: sounds important, although I dont know what I'm looking for, sorry
Ease of use: I dont know what i'm looking for, sorry
Edge Retention: I want to get good at sharpening, so I dont mind the regular practise.




KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Synthetic plastic from IKEA... lol
Please recommend one within budget. This plastic thing is horribly warped.


Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Not yet

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes, I'm planning on getting one of these to allow me to do double bevels and maintain precise angles. Eventually I'd probably be happy getting into freehand sharpening. but for now, something like this:
http://www.alloutdoor.co.uk/knives-...te-professional-knife-sharpening-system.htm#b




SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS


- I have a woman's hands, milord! These dainty pinkies have never weighed anchor in a storm. They're very small and girly. I'm very good at typing.
- I hope to gradually build up a collection of other knifes for more specific usage; vegetable chopping, meat cutting, etc, but for now it needs to be able to do all the things mentioned earlier to a reasonable level

final question:
-would it be stupid to ask for 2-3 very different knives for my £130 budget, so that i could learn to sharpen on inexpensive blades, and get experience using different knives so I can really learn what I like?
 
I'd recommend a Misono 440 santoku or small size gyuto (180 or 210 mm). Sharpens easily. Small and comfortable handle, and affordable. Good stain resistance too (high Chromium content).
 
You are lucky to have gbp to use :)

Here you can get a great Mac Mighty chefs knife for about 110gbp. It is 210mm or thereabouts. These are very good knives for the price.

This will leave you 90gbp of budget for a new cutting board and sharpening system. I recommend you just freehand sharpen. Jigs are questionable. Cavemen sharpened things and so can you! It is really easier than you think, and if you buy the mac, you will find it is quite easy to sharpen. It is much cheaper to purchase a king brang waterstone and learn to sharpen your old cutlery before trying to sharpen the mac (they come nice and sharp out of the box so you shouldnt need to sharpen for some time)

If you think the mac might be too big, or you want to save some more money you can drop down to the chef series knives, which are a little more flexible/whippy but I have found them to be pretty good. You can search ebay for the Mac HB-70 (I actually really like this knife), BK-80, or HB-85, these are all about half the price of the Mac Mighty, comparable quality...

You might need to opt for a poly board on your budget... You can get better quality ones from restaurant supply stores, sometimes they will have "sani-tuff" or "hi-soft" boards, these are the best inorganic option for your knives. Note any board will warp from poor maintenance.
 
Welcome to KKF. If you want a (semi)stainless knife and are in the EU perhaps check out itinomonn from Maksim at JNS. I don't have personal experience with this brand but have been impressed with the other purchases I have made (I'm overseas so also impressed with the customer service / shipping), also There's a 20% off sale which IIRC ends later today (promo code is JNSC).

This knife may be one worth looking at http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-stainless-kasumi-210mm-wa-gyuto/
 
I'd recommend a Misono 440 santoku or small size gyuto (180 or 210 mm). Sharpens easily. Small and comfortable handle, and affordable. Good stain resistance too (high Chromium content).

Thanks for the thoughts!
Out of interest, why a santoku? is that simply because that Misono ticks all the boxes and just happens to be santoku, or because my requirements would be suited to a santoku?

Appreciate your help
 

I recommend you check Cleancut in Sweden.

They have a handful of Wakuis on sale. The 180 Santoku is an absolute bargain (discounted to £75 + 15 shipping) and will make you think the Global was a toy.

For the addiction you won't need help I'm afraid.
 
So 200 pounds is about $300 USD. I say get a decent poly board (epicurean, for example), a 1K/6K combo stone (not one of those sharpening jigs, you want to learn freehand), and a lapping plate to keep your stone flat. Should be able to get all that for about $125 - $150 depending on sizes, quality, etc.

For the left over ~$150, there are a lot of choices for a knife. Suggest a 210mm gyuto for you. If you want to go western handled carbon, check out the Misono swedish steel series:

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/SwedenSteelSeries.html#SwedenSteel

For stainless, looks like there are good prices on the moly 440 series from the same maker.

Might also check out the Tojiro powdered metallurgy series for something with better edge retention on a poly board. http://www.knivesandstones.com/tojiro-powdered-high-speed-steel-gyuto-chef-210mm-f-520/
 
Wow, thank you all so much for the advice. Looks like I'll try freehand sharpening from the start and just practise on my old knives first.

I'm going to look over the recommendations now. Unfortunately some of the US links will cost a bomb in shipping. I'll have a look around for UK friendly sites and post back when I've got a few ideas together
 
Wow, thank you all so much for the advice. Looks like I'll try freehand sharpening from the start and just practise on my old knives first.

I'm going to look over the recommendations now. Unfortunately some of the US links will cost a bomb in shipping. I'll have a look around for UK friendly sites and post back when I've got a few ideas together
knives and stones ships from australia
japanesenaturalstones ships from denmark
japanesechefsknife ships direct from japan

the link I posted ships from california. Sorry. You can definitely import the mac knives directly from Japan though.
 
knives and stones ships from australia
japanesenaturalstones ships from denmark
japanesechefsknife ships direct from japan

the link I posted ships from california. Sorry. You can definitely import the mac knives directly from Japan though.

Doh. Someone else has pointed this out too. Thanks. I've grown too reliant on Amazon..

Based on all the comments I'm looking at the following items:

Knife: Misono No.811 Gyuto 180mm (7 inch)*
Stone: King KDS 1000/6000 Combo Sharpening Water Stone

Questions:
- Is there any need to look at other stones given my budget?
- I cant seem to find a poly board on any of those sites and the three brands mentioned (epicurean, sani-tuff and hi-soft) seem hard to find in the UK. Any ideas please?


Links for reference

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/440Series.html#440Series
http://www.knivesandstones.com/king-kds-1000-6000-combo-sharpening-water-stone/

*Full Knife Info:
Misono No.811 Gyuto 180mm (7 inch)*
Cutting edge length: 185mm
Total Length: 310mm
Blade Thickness: 2mm
Blade Width: 42mm
Handle Length:118mm
Total Weight: 144g
Holiday Special$101.70
 
I have the 180mm misono but with Swedish carbon steel and I would suggest you consider the 210mm if you plan to use as your main knife, I enjoy using the 180 for smaller tasks but would personally want something larger if it was my only knife (180 almost reminds me of a petty due to 40ish mm height). I'd also suggest getting a corresponding wooden saya unless you have something else to keep it safe http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/WhetStonesForSale.html#WoodenSaya
 
edit- looks like i can get the King 1k/6k in the UK.
 
I enjoy using the 180 for smaller tasks but would personally want something larger if it was my only knife (180 almost reminds me of a petty due to 40ish mm height).
Misono makes the 210 mm gyutos similar to the 180 mm, also very light and slim (low blade height). Fork, if you're currently used to smaller knives, I would NOT recommend going up to their 240 mm, it's a big huge in heft, blade height (in addition to length) going up from the 210 mm to the 240 mm for Misono. I suggested possibly the Misono santoku as well, because some new knife users are more comfortable with the extra height of the santoku as well as a less intimidating pointed tip.
 
Your aversion to pinch grip is probably due to using such small knives (6"). Move up to a 8" and you''l probably be pleasantly surprised at how much more control and comfort you have with pinch grip. I was.
 
Why not just get a wooden cutting board for home use. Just don't get one too thin, it can warp like your plastic board. Wood is much nicer to cut on.
 
Cost maybe. If he's only looking to spend 200 pound total here and wants a good knife and a stone
 
Thanks for the further advice. I think you guys are right; I do feel more comfortable with more height and the low height of the 180 isn't really what I'm after. I think the 210 Santoku is what I'm looking for.

I happened to have a very cheap (£3) sharpening stone in the garage and attempted to sharpen a fake 'Kitchen Devil' purchased from a car boot sale (lol) - So far I've nearly destroyed the knife: rounded the edge terribly.

I'm going to hold fire on the knife purchase for the moment. I'll start with a good stone and sharpen my cheap knives, then once I'm proficient I'll get a Misono 210 Santoku, saba and board.

HomeCook, excuse the ignorance but you've mentioned a 1k/3k while others have suggested a 1k/6k. A bit of googling tells me that the 6k will leave a better edge for push cutting, while the 3k coarse edge will be better for cutting meat. Does that sound about right? Given my primary use of push cutting, is it fair to say that the 1k/6k is more suitable?
 
I've been using the King 1K/6K combo stone as my starter sharpening setup. Used it a couple of times but not overall thrilled by the lack of feedback as the blade contacts the stone surface. What would be the next progression from King? Gesshin?
 
I've been using the King 1K/6K combo stone as my starter sharpening setup. Used it a couple of times but not overall thrilled by the lack of feedback as the blade contacts the stone surface. What would be the next progression from King? Gesshin?

I've been swapping stones around to see what I like best and I think you would probably be happy with the Gesshin 2000 if you don't mind a soaker. It cuts every bit as fast as my shapton glass 1000 and feels way better. For the finishing I've been playing with a Takeshima Awasedo (avail at JKI) and an Ohira Suita and like both equally. The Tak is really soft and you WILL learn to keep a constant angle and the Ohira is fairly hard. Haven't decided which one I like best but both give a nice sharp but toothy edge if you don't get too carried away after the medium stone. I'm thinking I probably need another stone (hey, spend a fortune on knives so you have to spend a fortune on rocks to rub them on right?) in between the 2K and the nat's but right now this progression gives me good results.
 
I've been swapping stones around to see what I like best and I think you would probably be happy with the Gesshin 2000 if you don't mind a soaker. It cuts every bit as fast as my shapton glass 1000 and feels way better. For the finishing I've been playing with a Takeshima Awasedo (avail at JKI) and an Ohira Suita and like both equally. The Tak is really soft and you WILL learn to keep a constant angle and the Ohira is fairly hard. Haven't decided which one I like best but both give a nice sharp but toothy edge if you don't get too carried away after the medium stone. I'm thinking I probably need another stone (hey, spend a fortune on knives so you have to spend a fortune on rocks to rub them on right?) in between the 2K and the nat's but right now this progression gives me good results.

Thanks for that suggestion. I don't have problems using whetstones, just looking for a good medium to sharpen my 3-4 knives. The Gesshin range seems to garner lots of praise here and elsewhere.
 
Thanks for that suggestion. I don't have problems using whetstones, just looking for a good medium to sharpen my 3-4 knives. The Gesshin range seems to garner lots of praise here and elsewhere.

The Gesshins are really nice. Don't get me wrong, I like the shaptons but the Gesshins feel really better since they don't "skip" and I was surprised that the 2K was so fast. Not sure what the difference is but Jon definitely got the secret sauce right on the Gesshin. I'm almost agnostic on the finishing stone performance wise (although I still seek the holy grail of stone progressions and am learning slowly but surely) since I get the best results by using it sparingly to preserve the toothiness and then using it to strop the edge back into shape. I've got a shapton 8k and a Naniwa 10K super but they both are better for knives that need a smoooooooothe edge. The naniwa does give a really nice mirror bevel. On knives where I want to impress, I do a main bevel polished to mirror and then use the jnats to get back to the toothy edge with a microbevel. Still experimenting to find the perfect edge but at the moment that is what I like.
 
Since you're just starting out and on a limited budget the 1k/3k is an inexpensive starter stone combo of a good make you can start out with. Plus it comes with its own stone holder. You don't need 6k if you're practicing on soft steel. The only other thing you need is a cheap flattening stone.

http://korin.com/Togiharu-Brick-Nakame-Stone-Fixer?sc=27&category=280111

Check out the free Korin sharpening video series.

Also, the Misono 440 santoku is 180mm. The gyuto is 210 but narrower.
 
In Britain you have less options than our friends in the US because you don't know how much you're going to be hit with by customs. The postage alone can seriously ramp up the price of the knife. I looked at a 74 dollar Fujiwara Gyuto and the postage from CKTG was 51 dollars. UK Customs is the next hurdle. You may get lucky, or you may not. Regarding stones, take the plunge and get a decent starter stone. The Shapton Pro 1500 is online for 31 quid including post. That stone will keep a kitchen knife in serious cutting mode indefinitely. Personally, i'd take that over a combination stone and build on it, but it's your money.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001TPJARE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 
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I would recommend a Tojiro DP knife. Cheap and cheerful. Vg-10 core steel @60HRC, holds it's edge quite well in home use. (My go to knives at work.)
Would also recommend a cheap but decent looking Board
As for sharpening stone i would go for Naniwa. 1k and a 3k.
 
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