Help with knife ID

[mattkap]

old knife with unknown provenance other than it was given to my dad by a good friend of his many years ago. single edge, deba (I think). any help is appreciated. thanks

 

[kujaku]

Tsukiji Masamoto deba

 

[mattkap]

Tsukiji Masamoto deba

Thank you! Any idea what it might be worth?

 

[refcast]

Depends on size, looks 165mm, or maybe 180mm long. No A stamp means it's probably white steel. There's various kinds and qualities of deba by masamoto tsukiji, but is probably their higher end one because it doesn't have a media blast finish, plus it has an upgraded octagonal horn handle (+$35) and saya (+$35). I would say it could sell for around $175-$250, depends on the market. If it's the honkasumi hon deba (hon kasumi is a grade of sharpening, straightening, and finishing, and sometimes even blacksmithing work quality. Hon deba, the hon means it's a thick deba. Deba is that knife type name, for cutting fish fillets from whole fish, and fish bone work too)

https://www.tukijimasamoto.co.jp/collections/出刃包丁各種/products/hdbb180

BUT!! It has an octagonal handle and deep kurouchi on the engraving, and the honyaki version matches that better. The honyaki is like a $700-900 knife. I dont see any kasumi on the wide bevel, or lamination line, so I'd probably say it's a honyaki, but I'd need a close up of the wide bevel, or of any hamon under light

https://www.tukijimasamoto.co.jp/collections/出刃包丁各種/products/deba150

 

[kujaku]

I was thinking the same thing. there is no visible boundary between the soft iron and the hard steel on the kireha, it might be a honyaki. Looking at their website, it seems they only have honyaki deba in 150mm, 180mm, and 210mm.

 

[mattkap]

Depends on size, looks 165mm, or maybe 180mm long. No A stamp means it's probably white steel. There's various kinds and qualities of deba by masamoto tsukiji, but is probably their higher end one because it doesn't have a media blast finish, plus it has an upgraded octagonal horn handle (+$35) and saya (+$35). I would say it could sell for around $175-$250, depends on the market. If it's the honkasumi hon deba (hon kasumi is a grade of sharpening, straightening, and finishing, and sometimes even blacksmithing work quality. Hon deba, the hon means it's a thick deba. Deba is that knife type name, for cutting fish fillets from whole fish, and fish bone work too)

https://www.tukijimasamoto.co.jp/collections/出刃包丁各種/products/hdbb180

BUT!! It has an octagonal handle and deep kurouchi on the engraving, and the honyaki version matches that better. The honyaki is like a $700-900 knife. I dont see any kasumi on the wide bevel, or lamination line, so I'd probably say it's a honyaki, but I'd need a close up of the wide bevel, or of any hamon under light

https://www.tukijimasamoto.co.jp/collections/出刃包丁各種/products/deba150

 

[refcast]

Yeah looks honyaki, hamon will be under there somewhere, polishing with loose abrasive can bring it out, etching can too

 

[kdizzog6]

I am no expert but that looks like cladding. Not honyaki.

Here is an example of a cheap usuba that I use. You can see the cladding line on top similar to yours. It’s iron sandwich on top of the carbon steel. I’m assuming Shiro white steel. You can see the contrast between the two different metals, more visible after sharpening.

Here is my honyaki, super hard. The Japanese put great care in their honyaki with the hamon line (the wavy line) visible without etching.

 

[mattkap]

Yeah looks honyaki, hamon will be under there somewhere, polishing with loose abrasive can bring it out, etching can too

dude thank you so much for your help here. beautiful knife either way but I have no use for it and am not the best person to take care of it. i can't post it for sale here bc I'm new so I'll post to r/truechefsknivesBST. What do you think is a fair asking price given all the factors?

 

[kdizzog6]

I’d say, when you’re bored, get some flitz or metal polish and see what it might be hiding. Honyaki is worth a lot more than not. It might be worth it to check it out. Search eBay too and see what they are selling for.

 

[refcast]

Unfortunately, honyaki single bevels in general aren't very easy to resell, which sucks. There isn't much of a market for honyaki in general, and of that, it's mostly gyuto and yanagi, and if that, it's by famous makers which have more resell value, and of those, usually vivid and flashy hamon.

Basically, what you end up selling is what you end up selling it for. . . Sadly. I think $600 would be a good place to start, then go down from there. There's another honyaki deba on the forum that hasn't sold in a year ... Or more.

Now, the straight line kasumi on the back has been something that perplexed me a while back when learning about Japanese knives. Sushikiri often have this, even though the lamination line is near the edge, and they are san mai. Its just a stylistic thing, and to indicate that there's soft iron or soft steel. Usually. Sometimes it's used on steel on very low end knives to fake a lamination line. Its used in Sakai on some expensive stainless clad single bevels, on the back, to fake a lamination line on the back that doesn't exist.

There simply are some honyaki where the hamon is really faint, so idk. Rotate it in the light. Metal polish will indeed bring it out a bit. Or since you're in LA, Jon at JKI can inspect it for you; it's something he's very open to doing and has owned masamoto tsukiji knives, and has honyaki in shop.

On deba, the hamon is usually around halfway the width of the blade. It is either going to be straight line or wavy, then curved up near the tip. Most don't have a "Fuji" hamon, shaped like the mountains outline, and in that case it's explicitly polished to show it.

 

[kdizzog6]

Unfortunately, honyaki single bevels in general aren't very easy to resell, which sucks. There isn't much of a market for honyaki in general, and of that, it's mostly gyuto and yanagi, and if that, it's by famous makers which have more resell value, and of those, usually vivid and flashy hamon.

Basically, what you end up selling is what you end up selling it for. . . Sadly. I think $600 would be a good place to start, then go down from there. There's another honyaki deba on the forum that hasn't sold in a year ... Or more.

Now, the straight line kasumi on the back has been something that perplexed me a while back when learning about Japanese knives. Sushikiri often have this, even though the lamination line is near the edge, and they are san mai. Its just a stylistic thing, and to indicate that there's soft iron or soft steel. Usually. Sometimes it's used on steel on very low end knives to fake a lamination line. Its used in Sakai on some expensive stainless clad single bevels, on the back, to fake a lamination line on the back that doesn't exist.

There simply are some honyaki where the hamon is really faint, so idk. Rotate it in the light. Metal polish will indeed bring it out a bit. Or since you're in LA, Jon at JKI can inspect it for you; it's something he's very open to doing and has owned masamoto tsukiji knives, and has honyaki in shop.

On deba, the hamon is usually around halfway the width of the blade. It is either going to be straight line or wavy, then curved up near the tip. Most don't have a "Fuji" hamon, shaped like the mountains outline, and in that case it's explicitly polished to show it.

I don’t believe any single bevels are sanmai, that’s three layers, the lamination is called nimai it’s only two layers.

 

[refcast]

Sushikiri are a specific kind of knife to cut rolls. They aren't single bevels, they're double bevels.

Sushi with statement that it is clad on both sides with iron
https://www.jikko.jp/c/goods/wa-bouchou/wa-sushikiri/w2sa21ss1

Sushikiri with straight line kasumi
https://www.ichimonji.co.jp/products/1susiys1