How is hamaguri-ba accomplished on kiritsuke-style points that have third-planes?

[Qapla']

Question for users of kiritsuke's, mukimono's, etc: How is hamaguri-ba accomplished on kiritsuke-style points that have third-planes?

Most (but not all) such designs tend to have a third plane to support the point (example here); this would presumably cause the "shinogi-raising" at that area to be done at a completely different angle than the rest of the blade-road. How then is the bevel-fusion done on that area? Clearly it would not be exactly the same as is done with the rest of the blade.

 

[Qapla']

I'm also open to hearing from wide-bevel bunka-users. I know there are a lot of k-pointers here on the forum....

Anyone?

 

[naader]

Leave the top 2/3 of the bevel flat perpendicular to the shinogi line and give bottom third coming up from the edge a bit of convexity, pretty easy way to do it for edge strength while maintaining ease of polishing. Don't worry about that bevel at the tip, won't change noticably.

 

[Qapla']

Leave the top 2/3 of the bevel flat perpendicular to the shinogi line and give bottom third coming up from the edge a bit of convexity, pretty easy way to do it for edge strength while maintaining ease of polishing. Don't worry about that bevel at the tip, won't change noticably.

How is that done? In the case of the top 2/3 of the bevel, that'd presumably be handled during the shinogi-raising phase, but I'm not sure what would be done to keep it straight; is this simply about keeping one's fingers lower down in beta-togi fashion?

What kinds of kiritsuke's do you most often use this technique with?

 

[naader]

How is that done? In the case of the top 2/3 of the bevel, that'd presumably be handled during the shinogi-raising phase, but I'm not sure what would be done to keep it straight; is this simply about keeping one's fingers lower down in beta-togi fashion?

What kinds of kiritsuke's do you most often use this technique with?

If you've got perfect beta togi, just put your fingers almost at the edge and grind with a slightly raised angle. If your control is mechanically good, you'll end up with another perfect facet and another shinogi line going right down the kireha but I'm willing to bet it isn't and you will end up rocking the blade to some degree. This'll create hamaguri lol. Same thing works with yanagiba.
Lazy way is to start with regular beta togi position having the knife lay flat on the stone and raising the knife angle slightly every time you push on the stone. That'll also create convexity at the edge. Less precise but it'll do the job.