How you hold your knives/pinch grip style?

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mikedtran

mikedtran

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Was watching the video below and was wondering how others hold their knives and more specifically the specifics/variations of the pinch grip.

Do you pinch grip or hammer grip primarily? (guessing most people are pinch gripping)
If you pinch grip, do you lock your middle finger against the choil or do you pinch your thumb and index right after the handle?

[video=youtube;jCrrq2H2X6Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCrrq2H2X6Q[/video]
 
Pinch grip

wGa2rZa.jpg
 
Pinch for gyuto chefs nakiri
Pointing grip (at least that's what I think it's called) for deba yanagiba etc.
 
I use what's comfortable for the knife.

Part of why I opted for a knife longer than usual from Cris (the 217mm in the video) was that with many shorter knives I use (150-180mm), I do not hold the knife so far forward in a pinch. Holding the knife that far forward on a small knife seems like wasting usable edge length.
 
I will use several grips, especially on smaller knives. Like XooMG I will slide the pinch grip back in to the ferrule on my 210s for slicing or other tasks where the feeling of length is desired. I'll even do it on my 270 if I'm trying to cut a bunch of something all at once. This is one of the reasons I prefer D handles, the line hits the ring and middle finger part of the pinch and let's you lock on and easily change the angle of the knife.
 
I usually hold as shown in Cris' video and I'd say it generally depends somewhat on the knife as well (including factors such as the handle, emoto length/height, etc.). I can't hold my ZK 10" chef's knife any other way now as it feels awkward, also gives more cutting power (not going to draw the FBD though).

A longer handle looks nice especially if you get a custom or fancy one, but I don't think the size of a handle on a knife designed as per the one in the video would be a limiting factor for me – should be putting this theory to the test in due course ;)

Wasn't there a knife designed with what looked like a stub or a golf ball like handle?

EDIT- found the thread:
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/24646-Fini-Knives-From-Kickstarter

Not a golf ball (it's been awhile since I've seen it so what can I say), but there is a somewhat similar discussion
 
i like to choke up (grip further up the blade) because it reduces pivot and follows the path of my forearm not wrist, i think it's a more ergonomic and stable action. but like dardeau, i am switching grips a lot depending on the task. index finger on spine for pull cuts, thumb on spine for peeling, further back for slicing, etc.

and i didn't realize part of the reason i prefer d-handles is due to the alignment, not just more comfort.
 
Like a baby sparrow (ie very gently) pinched as close to the spine as possible at the balance point on the blade. Sometimes I will do a point grip for detail wrk with a 240 like when you clean the inside of a bell pepper. I'm too tired to remember the name of that light coloured stuff


Like in the cja vid and the pic in this thread... I try not to bear down on the spine with my index finger I find that's fairly indicative of a junked edge.... Certain tasks not withstanding of course, but if you need to bear down like that for an onion or some protein you might want to hit the stones
 
I use the "wrong" pinch grip. Where my index finger wraps around the choil, not middle finger. Works just fine for me using 210mm knives and less. My 240mm Gyuto being heavier may benefit from using the proper pinch grip. I may give it a try next time. Being a home cook and only into the high end kitchen knife world a few months, I do not feel I am wanting for more power or performance from using my current grip. I can probably afford to loose x% efficiency when I am only dicing 1 onion, 1/2 pepper, and 3 cloves garlic.

I feel like a shorter knife may be awkward for me to use the proper pinch grip, as I do not have enough blade height for my index finger to rest comfortably. My 210 gyutos measure in at like 43 and 45mm tall, so not much clearance there. The 240mm has more clearance and should be alright. I'll try the proper pinch (PP?) grip with the 240 and the 10" Forgecraft next time I run them out.
 
It depends on the knife and what I am doing. With a well sharpened gyuto, I will hold the knife further back on the handle, in a relaxed manner and let the knife to the work. I'll move further up towards the blade and use a firmer grip if I am cutting hard products.
 
I thought Pitch grip was for rocking motion, and Hammer grip was for chopping motion.

BTW, western chef knife is mostly for rocking, that's why the knife is very curvy & 'un-straight'. Japanese and Chinese are mostly chopping or lightly slicing, therefore, you can see Chinese cleavers and Japanese gyuto/santoku are flat mostly.
 
KitchenCommander said:
I use the "wrong" pinch grip.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is necessarily a "right" pinch grip, and it certainly may vary by knife.
Cris was clarifying the intended grip that he thinks is the best match for his design, and provides the best performance for the user. The balance point, size/shape of the handle, long and rounded choil, and blade thickness at the heel are all elements (perhaps there are others as well) that work together to promote top performance.
 
I think you might want to read what you wrote, then think again about using a deba to illustrate your point.
 
Gyuto is made in (as in to copy) French profile...

German knives tend to be rounded like you are talking about...

not just people in Asia chop their food...
 
My point is more the profile of the knife shouldn't dictate how you use it. I don't rock at all with my gyuto, and I use a tojiro 90% of the time at work which has 0 flat to it. I also don't think grip has much to do at all with dictating technique as has been said here before you might scoff at how someone holds a knife until they leave you in the dust and fly through a case of kabocha!
 
toddnmd said:
I don't think there is necessarily a "right" pinch grip, and it certainly may vary by knife.
Cris was clarifying the intended grip that he thinks is the best match for his design, and provides the best performance for the user. The balance point, size/shape of the handle, long and rounded choil, and blade thickness at the heel are all elements (perhaps there are others as well) that work together to promote top performance.
Click to expand...

This is a fair point, thank you for that. I was merely saying that the way I hold my knives is not the exact same grip as the pinch grip described in the diagram posted for pinch grip. I believe it still may fall under a more broad definition of a pinch grip. If I remember, I can easily post a pic of how I hold my knives.

Another note about my index finger pinch grip. I find it much more comfortable with thicker spine knives at the choil. With my Masakage Yuki bunka the thick ~4mm spine gives me much control over the knife. For my Shibata Kotetsu R2 Laser Gyuto, the thin spine does not offer as much control of the blade, because I cannot get as good of a grip. For this reason, I am wondering if I may like a Western Handled laser style knife better than my current Wa handled Kotetsu Gyuto. Maybe I'll get one in western to try, but I still like the Kotetsu too much to part with it yet, its a K-Tip style with a flat profile that I really like for chopping.
 
My experience is that conventional pinch affords very good lateral control of knife and for me is most useful for push cutting and chopping at the heel. The finger point affords more longitudinal control - pressure on the tip - and is most useful for slicing and dicing. So mostly pinch on Gyuto, Nakiri. Mostly finger on yani, Deba, suji.

I don't think this is very different from what Chris is demonstrating though I've yet to use a knife that was comfortable gripping under
the choil rather than on the side of the blade.


For most home cooks it probably doesn't matter. When I teach "Housewife Knife" most attendees use the finger grip and rock chop everything. I demo and advocate push cutting, pinch gripping but have no delusions about changing the way these folks do things. And know that most will spend less than an hour/year cutting anything.
 
This is how I hold my knives. I tried using my middle finger around the choil and did not know what to do with my index finger. This grip gives me plenty of control for my uses and I feel I can use all of the edge without my grip blocking the heel.
240mm

165mm
 
Couple thoughts... I had a chance to use five knives from Chris at the ECG last weekend. He is absolutely correct that his handles do allow very good control of the knife blade, even though its quite short compared to more traditional WA handles. Their quite geomectric but really work, giving the user several confident hand positions.

Second thought it that I use a modified pinch grip that hasn't been discussed much.

1.) There is the traditional pinch grip like Kitchencommander shows. I like this lateral cuts and chopping and rough or heavy handed work.
2.) There is the finger point. I like this for tip work. Vertical onion cuts, boning, slicing fish...
3.) Then there is the grip in between them. Its kinda like the Chinese clever grip, the index finger moves from behind the choil to neck and side of the blade, your finger is slightly bent. For me is the best slicing position, especially on onions. It allows you to choke up on the knife (move your hand back toward the end of the handle) and allows a more natural movement in the wrist. Very comfortable when cutting for long periods and you won't get that callus either.
 
XooMG said:
I use what's comfortable for the knife.

Part of why I opted for a knife longer than usual from Cris (the 217mm in the video) was that with many shorter knives I use (150-180mm), I do not hold the knife so far forward in a pinch. Holding the knife that far forward on a small knife seems like wasting usable edge length.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing.

I usually pinch really close to the handle. In practice We handled knives (knives with an emoto) feel about 20mm longer effectively than my western handled knives.

Maybe I should add some length to the blades I have on order with Chris.
 
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