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jdjones

jdjones

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2017
Messages
20
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0
Location
New Orleans, LA
My two main knives I keep at work are a Middleton 8” stainless chef, and a Masakage 240 Shimo gyuto. The Middleton has been a great knife, but I have gotten spoiled by the Masakage - how sharp it gets, the edge retention, the thinness and overall performance. The only downside is it does need to babied at times, depending on what I’m prepping. But I find myself reaching for it 9/10 times now. So I’m looking for something that performs as well as, if not better than, the Masakage - to replace the Middleton.

LOCATION
What country are you in? United States of America



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in?
gyuto/Chefs Knife

Are you right or left handed?
Right handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
No preference

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
210mm - 240mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No, but if not stainless, it needs to at least have some type of cladding to protect against reactivity if it is carbon

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$600



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Professional

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Slicing, chopping, mincing vegetables and fruits; slicing and trimming meats

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Middleton stainless 8” chef.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
push cut and draw

What improvements do you want from your current knife?

I’ve got a Masakage Shimo 240 that I love and have been spoiled by, but I do have to baby it since it has no cladding. Looking for something to replace my Middleton so I have a stainless or clad alternative to my Masakage; I want something thinner and lighter, while also having better edge retention than the Middleton. Food release isn’t a big deal to me; I’m more interested in the overall cutting performance of the blade.



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?
Maple block at home, synthetic at work.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
I sharpen my own.

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Already have.



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

I’ve been eyeing a few lasers, as well as the Takamura Hana 210 gyuto, but I’m sure I’m overlooking some great knives, which is why I’m filling this questionnaire out. Thanks in advance for any help.
 
Not sure if you require a laser or simply a lighter knife than your Middleton.

If it's the second option, a good choice would be a stainless clad 240mm Kochi: https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...240mm-kurouchi-stainless-clad-carbon-wa-gyuto or a stainless clad Takeda. Another option would be a lighter Ittetsu (just give Jon a call and ask him for a lighter version).

If you require a true laser, i'll leave the suggestions for others that will chime in.
 
For 600 bucks I'd suggest either buying 2 $300 knives or 3 $200 knives. I'll leave the laser recommendations to those that use them...I hate **** sticking to my blade.
 
chinacats said:
For 600 bucks I'd suggest either buying 2 $300 knives or 3 $200 knives. I'll leave the laser recommendations to those that use them...I hate **** sticking to my blade.
Click to expand...

My biggest concerns are edge retention, cutting performance, and reactivity. I don’t necessarily require a laser, just something thinner than the stainless I already own. Do you have any recommendations for a knife that is thin and light, but also has good food release?
 
jdjones said:
My biggest concerns are edge retention, cutting performance, and reactivity. I don’t necessarily require a laser, just something thinner than the stainless I already own. Do you have any recommendations for a knife that is thin and light, but also has good food release?
Click to expand...

Mac dimpled santoku or one of the other dimpled ones? Macs are actually good.
Gleastain pretty much only makes weird looking knives thats promoted as good for food release.
 
jdjones said:
My biggest concerns are edge retention, cutting performance, and reactivity. I don’t necessarily require a laser, just something thinner than the stainless I already own. Do you have any recommendations for a knife that is thin and light, but also has good food release?
Click to expand...

Yes, check out Tanaka blades at Knivesandstones.com. These are excellent cutters with good release for around $200 from a trusted vendor.
 
Very thin and good food release doesn’t exist, IMHO. It’s the holy grail. The thinner the knife the more food sticks to it, if you ask me. Now, that can change A LITTLE depending on the finish of the blade and grind, but not that much.

You have to decide what’s more important..... ideally I think you should give it percentages, for example 70/30 in favor of cutting ease/prowess over food release. That way you should get better recommendations here .....
 
alterwisser said:
Very thin and good food release doesn’t exist, IMHO. It’s the holy grail. The thinner the knife the more food sticks to it, if you ask me. Now, that can change A LITTLE depending on the finish of the blade and grind, but not that much.

You have to decide what’s more important..... ideally I think you should give it percentages, for example 70/30 in favor of cutting ease/prowess over food release. That way you should get better recommendations here .....
Click to expand...

That’s kinda what I thought. I’ll take a thin blade over food release. More like 90/10 for me.
 
chinacats said:
I'm sticking by Tanaka, thin with good release!
Click to expand...

You’re not the first I’ve seen recommending Tanaka. I was following another thread on here where they were arguing Tanaka vs Takamura; needless to say, both of those are under consideration now.
 
It's worth looking at Gengetsu from JKI. The semistainless (stainless clad) has reasonable edge retention and one of the best tradeoffs between thinness and food release of any knife that I have used. I assume that the Shiroko (stainless clad) grind is the same. Comes with a burned chestnut handle which suits the knife nicely.

I second Tanaka Najishi. I have used the Ginsanko but I believe that the stainless clad blue2 grind is identical. Maybe a little thinner behind the edge than Gengetsu. Food release is good but not quite as good as Gengetsu. Fit and finish and handles on the KnS vesions are beautiful.

If you'd rather go with fully stainless, a PM stainless such as R2/SG2 or SRS15 will give great edge retention.

Look at Shiro Kamo Syousin Suminagashi. R2 PM steel. A little thicker than Gengetsu, with similar food release. A quite tall blade. Very long edge retention. A very subdued stainless damascus pattern. The handle is octagonal rosewood. KnS has an upgraded version called Shinko Kurokumo. It has a rounded spine and choil and an ebony and blonde horn handle and a (slightly) deeper etch to the damascus cladding.

I'd also take a look at Ryusen Blazen. SG2 (another name for R2) PM steel. It has the most beutiful balance in the hand. Fairly thin behind the edge with good food release given the thinness. Pakkawood western handle. Great fit and finish. Very long edge retentoon. There is a Ryusen "SG2" line which is a bit cheaper but has a more basic (but still very acceptanle) level of fit & finish.
 
Tanaka is very good, but pull out a Gengetsu and it fades fast into a distant second.

And for what it's worth, don't lose the beater - there will be times when you don't want to use your best knives.
 
daveb said:
Tanaka is very good, but pull out a Gengetsu and it fades fast into a distant second.

And for what it's worth, don't lose the beater - there will be times when you don't want to use your best knives.
Click to expand...

I’ll definitely be keeping the Middleton in my bag; I hate to call it a beater, but it’s built for that.
 
If you are serious about the professional use (meaning a daily ten-hour beating) then I'd go for the Mac Mth-80 and get a good bottle of brandy for the remaining 500$.
You don't need a flashy handforged knife in a pro kitchen, you need a solid tried and tested tool.
However, if you (like most of us) like a little more bling, Miyabi have some great stainless blades, e.g. the excellent 6000 MCT and the gorgeous 5000 MCD.
I have the Masakage Yuki santoku and the Miyabi 6000 gyutou, and I would say that they have very similar performance on the cutting board.
 
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