Is there any point to using all your grits and can you use your finest (10,000+) grit whetstone to strop?

[josemartinlopez]

1. Is there any point to using all your grits? For example, instead of sharpening on a 800 whetstone and jumping to 2,000 or 3,000, is there any point to using an 800, then 1,000, then 2,000, then 3,000?

2. Let's say you polish on a 3,000 to 6,000 whetstone. Can you use your finest whetstone (10,000 grit or higher) solely to strop? Is there any benefit to this?

 

[VICTOR J CREAZZI]

Assuming that you already own the stones using the 1k between the 800 and 2k should cut down on the wear on the finer grit stone. Higher grit stones are typically more expensive and the 1k will refine the 800 grit edge faster. Or, if there was less metal to remove you could skip the 800 and just start with the 1k.

If you don't own the 1k the jump from 800 to 2k should be easy and save you purchasing the 1k.

 

[josemartinlopez]

Assuming that you already own the stones

Yes, question assumes you have several stones and at least one of each grit in the ladder.

 

[ian]

Hi

1. Is there any point to using all your grits? For example, instead of sharpening on a 800 whetstone and jumping to 2,000 or 3,000, is there any point to using an 800, then 1,000, then 2,000, then 3,000?

2. Let's say you polish on a 3,000 to 6,000 whetstone. Can you use your finest whetstone (10,000 grit or higher) solely to strop? Is there any benefit to this?

1. No, it’s a waste of time. And you’ll probably take off more metal than you need to, which should be a much bigger concern than wearing your high grit stones.

2. You should throw out your 10k grit stones, unless you use straight razors. Strop on the 6k.

 

[kayman67]

1. Is there any point to using all your grits? For example, instead of sharpening on a 800 whetstone and jumping to 2,000 or 3,000, is there any point to using an 800, then 1,000, then 2,000, then 3,000?

2. Let's say you polish on a 3,000 to 6,000 whetstone. Can you use your finest whetstone (10,000 grit or higher) solely to strop? Is there any benefit to this?

If (and I really emphasis this) those stone would complement themselves perfectly, you would make the perfect consolidation for that edge. Would it really matter with such a tight grit? No. You might be able to measure some things, but won't matter enough while using. It's like those old times when people would OC their PCs even for that few % that would translate in no extra fps whatsoever.
However, a good progression will influence the retention in different ways. Depends on the alloys, stones, usage and so on. Most of us here have played long enough to have the best approach for individual needs. There's no universal answer.

Second question falls into the same category, more or less. I'm not a fan of stropping on stones. Would this be like a maintenance thing for you?

 

[Steampunk]

Point 1...

Grit jumps that are too small are rather pointless (800-1K or 2-3K). However, what is considered 'Normal' on KKF is jumping from a 800-1K stone to a 4-6K one, or 400-500 to 2-3K. This is a roughly 2.5X grit jump. In more sensible terms, a still smaller than average 1X jump has its place (Woodworking tools, polishing blade roads, very high wear resistance steels.), and some larger than average jumps like 5X+ can do some interesting things (Creating 'toothy sharp' mixed-grit edges, deburring stubborn steels, etc.).

Point 2...

I wouldn't say there is... If you need a 10K edge, you need a 10K edge. Stropping on 10K after a 6K will just make the edge more slippery, and take more passes to achieve this, than just touching the edge up properly on the 6K. If you need a 10K edge, sharpen and maintain frequently on 10K.

Hope this helps...

- Steampunk

 

[josemartinlopez]

If (and I really emphasis this) those stone would complement themselves perfectly

Let's assume the stones are all from the same set and the sharpener has a complete set

 

[Benuser]

In addition only: with double-bevelled blades for board work in Western cuisine going above 4k makes rarely much sense. If you have a good 6-8k or so it can be useful for fast touch-ups or eliminating the last burr remnants with some difficult steels. No reason to look for a high polish, though. You may get excellent edges without entirely removing the scratch pattern of the previous stone. It's no razor. Besides: much depends on the type of steel. The simplest carbons may benefit from some degree of polishing, while the same may lead to edge instability with a lot of stainless ones.
More stones mean more occasions for errors.
Stropping requires its very own technique. If done incorrectly it may lead to rounding and weakening an edge that would have been better off without.

 

[kayman67]

Let's assume the stones are all from the same set and the sharpener has a complete set

With Shapton Pro 1000 and 2000 is not an uncommon duo to have and use, while 1000 not being really 1000, more like 6-800. So in reality you would still jump from, let's say 800 to 2000. I haven't encountered someone using 1500 and 2000 like this.

 

[VincentBeek]

Hi


1. No, it’s a waste of time. And you’ll probably take off more metal than you need to, which should be a much bigger concern than wearing your high grit stones.

2. You should throw out your 10k grit stones, unless you use straight razors. Strop on the 6k.

I agree with you, knife over stone. But on point 2 why could you not strop on 10K(+) stones? A leather strop with a diamond compound is often also 10K or higher.

 

[Kawa]

Before I start on a knife, I decide what gritt I'm going to start on. I look at the knifes dullness, wear and chips.
When I start on 220, I go 1000 afterwards, 5000 after.
When I start on 400 or 600 I find the step to 1000 too small. Instead I go from 400/600 to 2000 and then 5000. (this last step could be bigger, to 6000-8000 or so. But my finest stone is 5000)

It's all a matter of 'is the next stone able to remove the scratches from the previous stone'.
There is no steady formula for that. Depends on the hardness of the knife and stone, actual gritt size, but also on your pressure while shaprening.

A good rule of thumb for me is between 3 and 4 times the previous gritt size. So from 600 (600x3) to 2000 will work for me. 220 (220x3) to 2000 doesn't work for me: I polish the top scrathes, but a lot of deep scrathes remain on the edge.

Experiment with it for yourself. You can't do anything wrong with your knife. You notice soon enough that the scratches won't go away in the time you are used to. In that case, don't blame the knife for being hard or crappy, but conclude that the grit jump was too high

 

[ian]

I agree with you, knife over stone. But on point 2 why could you not strop on 10K(+) stones? A leather strop with a diamond compound is often also 10K or higher.

Yea, you can do that if you like. I’m just being crabby. But I only strop on leather a couple times to get rid of any residual burr after sharpening. Better to just focus on the 6k and below stones.

 

[Ruso]

Some folks like 10K edge. I don’t, personally, but unless you try it you will never know if it works for you.

 

[MowgFace]

I think most has been covered above. Unless I was going for an absolute mirror edge (which i am never) i have found no point in walking up the grits.

I only used a 10K stone once. Sharpened all of my knives at the time with it to see what it was like. Did not care for the edge feel on ANY of my gyutos/pettys. Yanagibas with a 10K edge left a very beautiful cut face on fish.

My current progressions usually has me jumping from 2K to my finishing stone 3K-6K. Always strop on my last stone. When i first started the knife game, i stropped on newspaper because that's what everyone said to do. It has been YEARS since the last time i stropped on anything other than the finishing stone, or even cut paper after sharpening for that matter.