JNS 800 vs JNS 1000

[geoff_nocon]

Thinking of replacing my current 1000 grit stone. Which one is better for wide bevel knives? Or which one is better in general?

 

[skewed]

I haven't tried the JNS 1000 but I do have the big brick 800 Matukusuyama. I really like it. Not too muddy, cuts fairly fast and puts a really nice hazy finish on single or wide bevels. A lot of people around here will finish wide bevels or singles with higher grits or finger stones but I don't bother since I like the finish and the lack of fussing around.

 

[Lars]

Have the JNS800, but my JNS1000 isn't the current version that Maxim offers.
However, the JNS800 is great for wide bevels and in general a really nice stone.

Lars

 

[Matus]

For wide bevels I would go with the 800, for general edge sharpening with the 1000. I have briefly used the 800. The 1000 is supposed to be improved version of the previous one which is already a fantastic stone.

 

[geoff_nocon]

Thanks for the reply guys. Was leaning towards the 800 but heard great things about the 1000 and maxim did say it's one of his faves in his interview. Is it a good idea to get both or a bit redundunt?

 

[Elber10]

I think the 1000 is enough stone and you dont need a 800er

 

[Steampunk]

I only have the JNS 800 to comment on, but it is a very different type of stone from what I understand the newly updated JNS 1000 to be, so I would say that which is superior depends upon what you are looking for...

Firstly, the JNS 800 is a BIG, medium-soft, very thirsty stone (Almost Gesshin 400 thirsty; this is a soaking stone.), and I believe that the abrasive is SiC, although you would have to check with Maksim on that last bit... I initially purchased it for an interim step in thinning wide bevels, but quickly discovered that this is not the type of stone that I favor for that task. It requires constant splashing when thinning (Even though I perma-soak mine, the water just filters through it due to the porous structure.) which I find very annoying, the mud tends to wash up and make your shinogi line less precise (This is one of my personal issues with using coarser muddy stones when thinning knives; it can wreck the finish or kurouchi on the sides of your knife pretty quick, as well.), the mud also hides some unevenness in the grind that can come back to haunt you when progressing to harder finishing stones (My second issue; again, personal taste.), and lastly the finish it leaves is 'sandblasted' on both the jigane and the hagane. This makes it more difficult later on if your ambition is to polish the hagane, instead of leaving both matte. I just happen to like harder coarse-medium stones when thinning wide bevels to get the blade road just right, before moving onto a nice soft JNS synthetic Red Aoto and or naturals to emphasize the contrast, refine, and blend. However, these particular features I don't care for when thinning knives some people love, so you may end up liking it for this application. I almost regretted buying this stone due to my tastes when it comes to thinning knives, though; almost...

However at the same time, for certain other applications, it's a stone I would struggle to be without... This thing is a BEAST when it comes to setting up edge bevels on PITA steels! It grinds cheap, gummy Euro and Chinese stainless as easily as I have ever encountered, and the consistency is just perfect for minimizing burr formation so that you can more easily get a clean edge on these steels prone to incredibly stubborn burrs/wires. It also works well on very abrasion resistant steels with loads of hard carbides like Hitachi HAP40, CPM-M4, S30V, etc which I would normally struggle to shape properly without the use of diamond plates. In both cases, it results in a nice, usable, and toothy 'working' edge that is starting to shave hair (HAP40/CPM-M4 in particular gets rather keen on this stone.). Perfectly suitable as a final edge for either a Euro chef's knife, or a rough-use EDC folder used for breaking down cardboard boxes, etc... In either application I find it a pretty indispensable stone, as I can still enjoy the feel and minimal burr formation of a softer water stone on steels I would normally be grabbing my DMT's for. It also tends to bridge the gap between coarse and medium stones, so I sometimes pull it out on less tricky but still somewhat abrasion-resistant steels like Aogami, SLD, etc when one of my normal 1-2K stones isn't cutting fast enough, but I don't want to pull out one of my coarser 300-500 grit stones and add another interim refinement step.

The new JNS 1K appears to be very different animal; from the videos, it looks to be another quality alternative to the harder, 'splash & go' stones on the market like the Naniwa Pro/Chosera and Shaptons. I've liked all my JNS stones, so you'll probably end up appreciating either stone, but you may want to clarify in your mind what specific task you want this particular stone in your lineup to excel at. However if you can't decide, or you think that you need stones of similar grit that can excel at different tasks in two totally different ways, buying both probably wouldn't be a mistake providing you have the funds to drop on both.

Hopefully this helps...

- Steampunk

 

[Matus]

Stempunk, that is probably the most useful review/option on the JNS800, thank you. May I ask what do you use on wide bevels in comparable grit range? I though I would get the JNS800 for just that purpose, but you are making a valid remarks that make me consider a different alternative for that purpose.

 

[Steampunk]

Stempunk, that is probably the most useful review/option on the JNS800, thank you. May I ask what do you use on wide bevels in comparable grit range? I though I would get the JNS800 for just that purpose, but you are making a valid remarks that make me consider a different alternative for that purpose.

I am glad that it was of use... I have a slightly unorthodox wide bevel progression that I'm still trying to perfect. In the 800-2K range, I actually have been favoring a Shapton Pro 1K when thinning, which is the only thing I use this stone for these days and most would consider it a bizarre selection.

However, I actually find that the SP 1K to be a really good cutter on wide bevels (It releases just a tiny amount of slurry; just enough that it won't load on soft iron or SS cladding.), is almost as precise as a diamond plate (Dishing is very slow, and there is some fine abrasive slurry but no real mud.), it is genuinely splash & go so isn't thirsty at all, leaves a blank slate in terms of finish that is easy to refine (It doesn't really leave much contrast, but it also doesn't create any polishing difficulties for the next stone; following with the JNS Red Aoto, or a Coticule with heavy slurry, or a J-Nat in the mid-range generates the necessary contrast.), and since it isn't muddy it allows me to identify grind issues in the bevel as I'm going. Also, since there isn't a cushion of slurry, I get a real good tactile feel if I am sitting evenly on the bevel or not and if I am grinding down any high points... In fact, this is actually the only instance where I would say that it does have any feedback; on edge bevels it's kind of numb.

The best way I can describe it is it's as close as you can get to a diamond plate without the normal diamond plate issues, or a hard White Binsui that cuts everything fast, and doesn't glaze (Or create contrast, which the Binsui is actually quite good at.). I just wish there was a 150-300 grit stone that acted exactly this way! The lower grit Shapton Pro's are far muddier...

For other applications, I really don't like the Shapton Pro 1K, and I will be the first to admit that it's kind of a weird choice for this application. However, this is what suits my working style at the moment; maybe one day I will find something better.

Hopefully this helps...

- Steampunk

 

[geoff_nocon]

Thanks for the review that was really deep. The stone that I was gonna replace is the SP 1000 which I also love but has gotten really thin. I'll probably just buy both and try which ones better and sell the one I didn't like. Thanks guys for your inputs

 

[Matus]

Steampunk, thank you for a detailed answer. I have not reason to question your choices - all that matters that it works for you. You mention that you lack a coarse stone that would act similarly as the SP1k. Did you try the JNS300? It creates relatively little mud when working on wide bevels (definitely less than JNS800) and dishes slowly. Gesshin 320 would be a good choice too (my brief experience says that it behaves similarly to JNS300)

 

[Steampunk]

Steampunk, thank you for a detailed answer. I have not reason to question your choices - all that matters that it works for you. You mention that you lack a coarse stone that would act similarly as the SP1k. Did you try the JNS300? It creates relatively little mud when working on wide bevels (definitely less than JNS800) and dishes slowly. Gesshin 320 would be a good choice too (my brief experience says that it behaves similarly to JNS300)

No problem... Yes, I own a JNS 300, and find its performance 'cuspy' as to my preferences for a coarse thinning stone. It was actually perfect when I recently thinned my Hiromoto AS, but was not as aggressive a cutter and tended to get muddier than I cared for on my [far wonkier] soft iron clad Zakuri's; on SS monosteels I've had finer stones outpace it on occasion. The SP 1K is an even more dish resistant, and less muddy stone, but still continues to cut well on wide bevels and a wide variety of steels. Rare combo, but when doing heavy thinning a stone can rarely remove steel fast enough. Belt grinder time!

- Steampunk

 

[Tanalasta]

Resurrecting an old thread.
Has anyone an opinion of the current JNS1000/6000/blue Aoto and whether they will adequately sharpen a powdered steel (e.g. HAP40/ZDP189) knife? I'm contemplating a Sukenari, possibly a petty but don't want to commit to something I cannot look after.

 

[Matus]

Neither the JNS1000 nor the Blue Aoto are particularly fast stones, so for a high wear resistant steels I would want something more aggressive. The are very nice feeling stones though.

 

[Tanalasta]

Neither the JNS1000 nor the Blue Aoto are particularly fast stones, so for a high wear resistant steels I would want something more aggressive. The are very nice feeling stones though.

Thank you Matus. Whilst I'm not at the point I'd put my newer knives on the stones, I've sharpened a set of VG-Max Shun's to my satisfaction. They're well looked after so did not take long on JNS1000 and the Aoto to finish.

Whilst I've been using a sharpie to begin with, am I correct to say re: feedback if you push against the leading edge lightly, when it starts to bite the stone (bit like using a double edge razor) you have the angle correct and then hold that angle for edge leading and trailing strokes?