Just starting out, looking for advice for the home

[Tripwyr]

LOCATION​

What country are you in?
Canada

KNIFE TYPE​

What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
I've read that I should look for a chef's knife and a paring knife starting out

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Not sure, open to advice

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in?
My existing dull as rocks family knives are 8 inches (chef's) and 3.5 inches (paring)

Do you require a stainless knife?
I clean my knives immediately after using, so stainless probably won't matter. Again, open to advice.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$250 for chef's + paring

KNIFE USE​

Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)?
Absolutely everything between the two. I currently have no knives.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Nothing

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use?
Pinch is most comfortable, but I sometimes find myself using hammer because my family's knives are dull.

What cutting motions do you primarily use?
To be honest, I don't have any actual technique. I just do whatever cuts with my dull knives, but if I had to choose:
Rocking, Slice, Push Cut

I haven't developed a personal style yet, so this is not set in stone.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
I like wooden handles, darker/black handle would match my decor.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
I don't really know what I want here.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Again, no idea. I'll be learning how to sharpen, so maybe easier to sharpen?

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
Home use and I don't even use it every day, so probably not a concern.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE​

Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Yes, wood (edge) and synthetic

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
No

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS​

I'd appreciate sharpening advice/resources as well. I'd like to learn freehand; I'm fairly steady and coordinated with my hands (ex-competitive gamer). Budget listed above did not include sharpening tools.

Did I miss anything?

 

[Dave Martell]

Welcome to KKF

I'm sure that some of the guys will be along eventually to help steer you in the right direction.

Dave

 

[labor of love]

$250 for a parer+210mm gyuto(8"chefs)? good bit of options out there. have you seen anything that looks appealing?

 

[NO ChoP!]

Buy a 240 laser wa gyuto ( I say 240, because they usually run short); Konosuke, Ginga, Yusuke, etc... and a cheapy parer; Mac, Dojo, Kyocera, Misono, Suisin, etc...

Best bet is to throw a WTB feeler out in the BST's...you'll save a buck or two, and might find something you woulda thought to be out of your budget.

 

[Tripwyr]

$250 for a parer+210mm gyuto(8"chefs)? good bit of options out there. have you seen anything that looks appealing?

Buy a 240 laser wa gyuto ( I say 240, because they usually run short); Konosuke, Ginga, Yusuke, etc... and a cheapy parer; Mac, Dojo, Kyocera, Misono, Suisin, etc...

Best bet is to throw a WTB feeler out in the BST's...you'll save a buck or two, and might find something you woulda thought to be out of your budget.

Thanks guys, the Ginga looks pretty, but I honestly don't even know what I am looking for. Are there particular options which might be more appealing for a beginner? For example, the Gesshin Ginga 240MM Wa-Gyuto has both Stainless and White #2 as options. The handle on the White #2 looks nicer, but would stainless be preferable as a beginner?

I'll start looking through the BSTs.

 

[Chef Andy]

Thanks guys, the Ginga looks pretty, but I honestly don't even know what I am looking for. Are there particular options which might be more appealing for a beginner? For example, the Gesshin Ginga 240MM Wa-Gyuto has both Stainless and White #2 as options. The handle on the White #2 looks nicer, but would stainless be preferable as a beginner?

I'll start looking through the BSTs.

As a beginner I'd recommend staying with stainless. I'm still a beginner and I'm not going to carbon for a few more months untill I have some basic knife care skills down pat.

 

[Tripwyr]

Looks like the Gesshin Ginga 240MM Wa-Gyuto Stainless is going to be my choice. Unfortunately it is out of stock at Japanese Knife Imports, do they restock often?

With regards to Paring knives, how is the Shun Sora? It is on sale for $60 on Amazon. Unfortunately there is a shipping charge, so it comes in at $80 at the end of the day. Any other recommendations?

Step number 2, sharpening? I want to learn freehand, but I don't really know where to start. I bought a book from Amazon that was recommended somewhere (can't remember where at this point), but does anybody have any advice?

Thanks for the help so far guys!

 

[Talim]

You can start watching Jon's videos on sharpening. Maybe you can pick up a couple of stones too from him. http://www.youtube.com/user/JKnifeImports/videos

 

[labor of love]

maybe you should look into Leftys sub forum. hes also canadian so i assume you can save money with shipping through him. He also sells knives through his sharp and shiny webstore, im not certain how big the selection would be with your budget though but its worth looking into.

 

[kpnv]

actually, i recommend the suisin inox western 210mm. it's stainless and costs just over $100. not to mention it also has a darker wood handle like you mentioned. you can use the rest of the money on a basic combo stone and a parer. for a home cook with no idea about sharpening and little experience with knives in general, i think starting out with a pretty decent knife like the inox western is better than jumping into a stainless laser.

you can pick up the inox western from korin or jki. either company will also sell a decent/good combo stone and some options for inexpensive paring knives.

if you're set on the ginga anyway, then congrats, it's an awesome knife and i use mine daily at work.

 

[Mingooch]

Being new, don't let carbon steel worry you. As long as you put a little care towards it, it is fine. And I do really mean only a little, like not leaving wet or soaking etc or with food on it. When I was new I started with carbon since it is easier to sharpen, and I never regretted it at all.

 

[Tripwyr]

actually, i recommend the suisin inox western 210mm. it's stainless and costs just over $100. not to mention it also has a darker wood handle like you mentioned. you can use the rest of the money on a basic combo stone and a parer. for a home cook with no idea about sharpening and little experience with knives in general, i think starting out with a pretty decent knife like the inox western is better than jumping into a stainless laser.

you can pick up the inox western from korin or jki. either company will also sell a decent/good combo stone and some options for inexpensive paring knives.

if you're set on the ginga anyway, then congrats, it's an awesome knife and i use mine daily at work.

I'm definitely not set on the Ginga, I don't think I can justify spending the entire budget on the knife then buying stones + paring knife on top.

The Inox western looks nice, but I was hoping to find a Wa handle. What about the Gesshin Uraku series (210MM Stainless, 240MM Stainless, or 240MM White #2 Kurouchi)? It is around a similar price point and I'm no longer concerned about the colour of the handle; I've realized I'm moving in less than 8 months so don't need to match the decor of a kitchen I'm leaving.

Is cleaning and drying the knife after using the only required care for a carbon knife? If so, I already do that with my existing knives so it shouldn't be an issue to continue.

How does this sound; Gesshin Uraku 240MM White #2 Wa-Gyuto, Suisin Inox Western 80MM Paring Knife, King 1000/6000 Combo Stone? This puts me only slightly over budget at $312 after shipping.

 

[Ruso]

Well, it puts you at 25% markup from your original budged. In addition, don't forget that we, Canadians, pay taxes on non NA made imports. And all this knifes and stones are from Japan. Hence include about 20%+ more for the duty and brokerage fees.
I suggest you browse through Tosho - http://toshoknifearts.com/ or knifewear - http://knifewear.com/ both Canadian web sites and see what they have for your budget.

 

[JHunter]

Lee Valley is a good Canadian Source for stones to save all those other charges mentioned above as well

 

[Tripwyr]

Well, it puts you at 25% markup from your original budged. In addition, don't forget that we, Canadians, pay taxes on non NA made imports. And all this knifes and stones are from Japan. Hence include about 20%+ more for the duty and brokerage fees.
I suggest you browse through Tosho - http://toshoknifearts.com/ or knifewear - http://knifewear.com/ both Canadian web sites and see what they have for your budget.

Didn't really consider that. Looking at Lee Valley Tools, they have a 1000/4000 combination stone. Would this be an effective starter stone?

Looking through both knifewear and Tosho, there doesn't seem to be anything which speaks to me in my price range. After page 20 I got tired of the page-by-page layout of Tosho, and none of the Wa-handle knives on knifewear are in my price range. Maybe I'll just get the Gyuto on JKI and pick up the rest from Canadian sites?

 

[Ruso]

King 1000/4000 at Lee Valley is good option. It's not 1000/6000 but as somebody who just start you wont really notice a difference.

Do not understand me wrong, JKI and other US retailers are very good option, you just need to keep the duty fees in mind to no be surprised at delivery date.

 

[eighteesix]

You can start watching Jon's videos on sharpening. Maybe you can pick up a couple of stones too from him. http://www.youtube.com/user/JKnifeImports/videos

seconded. watching all of his videos wont take too long and youll gain a wealth of knowledge.

 

[Tripwyr]

King 1000/4000 at Lee Valley is good option. It's not 1000/6000 but as somebody who just start you wont really notice a difference.

Do not understand me wrong, JKI and other US retailers are very good option, you just need to keep the duty fees in mind to no be surprised at delivery date.

Yeah, so far from my research JKI has the best options in my price point even after taking shipping/duties into account. I'm going to buy the Gyuto at JKI, the water stones at Lee Valley Tools, and the paring knife from Amazon. Here is my list:

Japanese Knife Imports

Gesshin Uraku 240MM #2 White Kurouchi Wa-Gyuto - $135
Shipping - $35.95
Import Estimate - $27
Total - $197.95​

Lee Valley Tools

Truing Stone - $30.50
1000x/4000x Combination Stone - $37.50
Tax - $8.84
Total - $76.84​

Amazon

Shun Classic 3-1/2 Paring Knife - $87.50
Tax - $11.38
Shipping - Free (Prime)
Total - $98.88​

Total - $373.67

Obviously this is over budget, but I will probably skip the paring knife for a month or two until I get fit it into the budget. Without the paring knife the total comes to $275 all in, which is only $25 over budget. I think this is probably the level I am most comfortable with, as it starts me off with reasonable but not outrageous quality. Am I missing anything here, do I need a ceramic rod?

 

[greasedbullet]

I am going to be honest. $100 is a lot to spend on a non custom paring knife. I would recommend an opinel (carbone or inox are both good) or a sabatier pairing knife, or a fibrox. Pairing knives get a lot of hard use when the are used and are used infrequently at that. I have been using an opinel pairing knife for years and am comletely happy with it.

 

[Tripwyr]

I am going to be honest. $100 is a lot to spend on a non custom paring knife. I would recommend an opinel (carbone or inox are both good) or a sabatier pairing knife, or a fibrox. Pairing knives get a lot of hard use when the are used and are used infrequently at that. I have been using an opinel pairing knife for years and am comletely happy with it.

The only problem was that I was having trouble finding a cheap paring knife, but I found an Opinel Paring Knife for $11.49 ($7.47 shipping)! This brings my grand total to less than $300, which is pretty damn good (I had actually budgeted the $250 excluding shipping, so I'm actually below budget).

I just realized I am missing a honing rod/steel, do I need one? If so, can anybody make a recommendation?

EDIT: I found this Messermeister for $30 + free shipping, and this Edgeware for $19.99 + free shipping.

Are either of those good, and if so, which should I choose?

 

[greasedbullet]

I have the messermeister and it has served me well, but I only have it because I work in a kitchen. If you only use your knives at home and need a knife to get a bit better of an edge then you can just strop it on you highest grit stone a few times. If you want it get it, but for a home cook I doubt you truly need it.

 

[Colorado_cutter]

That looks like a really nice list. The Uraku carbon knife should be easy to get sharp, and be very versatile. I agree with greasedbullet, too. No need to spend a big chunk of change on the paring knife just yet. Opinel or Victorinox will get you going, for less money.

As far as a ceramic rod goes... well, I have one. But I find I use my home-made balsa wood strop more often. If I had a whole kitchen-full of carbon Sabatiers or stainless German knives, then I'm sure the ceramic rod would get used all the time. But, for harder steels, I like the strop. I've got mine loaded with 1.0 micron Cubic Boron Nitride, but people also say good things about the green chrome oxide compounds, which you can get pretty readily on Amazon.

 

[daveb]

I would pass on the rod/steel. As noted above they are more suited for softer Euro knives.

You may want to consider a stone holder. Not required but will make it easier to use your stone.

 

[JHunter]

As for the parer hit a local kitchen store and find something you like the feel of to start, a local place here has $5-$50 options. not knowing where you are cant recommend a store.

 

[Tripwyr]

I think the sub-$20 Opinel will probably be my choice for now.

But I find I use my home-made balsa wood strop more often.

Can you elaborate on this? How easy was it to make/use?

Still working my way through Jon's videos.

 

[labor of love]

I think the sub-$20 Opinel will probably be my choice for now.



Can you elaborate on this? How easy was it to make/use?

Still working my way through Jon's videos.

you can buy balsa wood really cheap at arts and supply stores. just glue or tape the wood to whatever surface or board to make it suitable for stropping

 

[Colorado_cutter]

you can buy balsa wood really cheap at arts and supply stores. just glue or tape the wood to whatever surface or board to make it suitable for stropping

Exactly. Super easy. You could use the balsa wood just as it comes from the store, but it is light enough that it moves around under the knife if you don't hold it, so gluing it to a base makes it more stable. I've just got mine glued to a plank of pine wood I had laying around. One day, I'm going to get fancy and put rubber feet on it.

 

[Tripwyr]

I'll pick some up on the way back from Lee Valley Tools then! Does anybody know where I can get Green Chrome Oxide? It doesn't seem to be available on Amazon Canada, and my reading online indicates that the compound Lee Valley sells contains 50%+ aluminum oxide.

 

[El Pescador]

I think a 400/2000 grit stone is better for a beginner than a 1k/6k. You are rewarded much quicker when you get things right on a 400 grit stone. Buy the best "inexpensive" knife you can. The big thing here is buying stones. If you learn to sharpen you can get crappy knives really sharp. Contrarily, without knowing how to sharpen, that really sharp knife (expensive) is a temporary thing.