King 300 permasoak

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amithrain

amithrain

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Got the King 300. Not bad. I know it’s splash and go, but is it permasoakable? I don’t like drying out stones.
 
I stopped permasoaking mine after about a year, because I felt it had gotten increasing softer.
 
Fwiw, I haven’t noticed it getting softer, although I seem to remember it improved after permasoaking. Then again, I don’t use it much anymore.
 
Mine doesn't adsorb much water, it sort of filters through. No need to soak, I just pour a little on it when I want to use it. Can't imagine it getting soft, I have to use loose grit to "restore" it, it cannot be flattened on sandpaper without losing it's tooth.

The Deluxe 300 is a steel eating machine when maintained with loose grit. Never see any grit in the swarf, just steel.

No benefit to soaking it.
 
@amithrain I don't quite understand -- I felt like the muddiness/softness was still on an increasing curve at the point when I stopped soaking it. Since drying it, I've used it a few times, and I think it's like how I remember it from before, which is to say that it doesn't seem much changed.

I don't know how muddy it would immediately be if soaked again; whether it would be a slow progressive softening like what happened the first time, or if it would quickly go back to being actually kind of overly muddy for the purpose I intend for it.

@psfred It definitely absorbs about 10% of it weight in water over a few weeks permasoaked. And it definitely tends to make mud from sharpening and stop needing to be conditioned nearly as often, when permasoaked for an extended time.
 
Sounds like binder failure to me. The great joy of that stone for me is that it stays flat nearly forever in use. Eventually it will get slow, but that's after grinding a couple yanagibas back from serious edge problems and a dozen or so hand plane blade flattenings and edge repairs. Did more "glazing" of the surface flattening in on silicon carbide paper before I learned to use grit to open up the surface than wear from actual sharpening. Last thing I want in a coarse stone is surface wear sharpening plane blades that have to be dead straight side to side.

I have several "muddy" low grit stones I find nearly unusable. They go out of flat so fast I end up in worse condition on the blades than when I started.
 
I found the only way to properly flatten and de glaze this stone was with 60/80 grit SiC and a glass plate. You can use a king 300 real hard for many hours before you need this
 
I did an ~40 minute thinning session a few days ago with the brand new stone and there was a decent amount of mud, enough to cover the whole stone. I‘m assuming this isn’t normal?
 
amithrain said:
I did an ~40 minute thinning session a few days ago with the brand new stone and there was a decent amount of mud, enough to cover the whole stone. I‘m assuming this isn’t normal?
Click to expand...

You’re worried that you got too much mud after 40 min? Seems normal to me.

I also found the stone to work fine with an Atoma. 🤷
 
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King Deluxe 300 has never made mud for me. In fact I'm pretty sure I've never seem much free grit at all, let alone mud. Green stone, hard as an Arkansas stone. I've worked it pretty hard, never see anything but black steel swarf.

Flatten and refresh with loose grit on something flat and hard (floor tile, flat concrete sidewalk, granite plate, etc). Sandpaper just smooths it out, although it will be flat. Won't cut well though, just polishes, much like an Arkansas stone. Once flat it stays that way for a very long time.

I don't know if King makes another 300 grit stone, but mud isn't part of using mine at all.
 
I bought this one through Stu (Toolsfromjapan), as far as I know it isn't imported to the US unless some of the regular retailers has picked it up. Green silicon carbide, vitreous bond as far as I can tell, and rings like an Arkansas. I believe the Deluxe series stones sold in the US are clay binder, and I would expect to see mud from them, but I've not researched to see if there is a 300 grit in the series different than mine.

It takes serious pressure to remove grit from mine, as in a fat guy leaning on it. Far more than any rational person should be using to sharpen anything, let alone a knife! I've flattened four plane blades and four chisels, then ground new bevels on all of them to fix issues from previous sharpenings and to remove chips and rust pits and there is NO wear I can detect. Cuts as fast as it did after I just refreshed it and no signs of going out of flat. No grit in the swarf. Nothing resembling mud.

There is no need to soak mine, water doesn't sink into it enough to notice, and it's bone dry the next day after I use it.
 
psfred said:
I bought this one through Stu (Toolsfromjapan), as far as I know it isn't imported to the US unless some of the regular retailers has picked it up. Green silicon carbide, vitreous bond as far as I can tell, and rings like an Arkansas. I believe the Deluxe series stones sold in the US are clay binder, and I would expect to see mud from them, but I've not researched to see if there is a 300 grit in the series different than mine.

It takes serious pressure to remove grit from mine, as in a fat guy leaning on it. Far more than any rational person should be using to sharpen anything, let alone a knife! I've flattened four plane blades and four chisels, then ground new bevels on all of them to fix issues from previous sharpenings and to remove chips and rust pits and there is NO wear I can detect. Cuts as fast as it did after I just refreshed it and no signs of going out of flat. No grit in the swarf. Nothing resembling mud.

There is no need to soak mine, water doesn't sink into it enough to notice, and it's bone dry the next day after I use it.
Click to expand...
Very interesting... How is the finish, pretty even or any deep scratches? I'm curious which stone you use to follow it in your progression.
 
psfred said:
I bought this one through Stu (Toolsfromjapan), as far as I know it isn't imported to the US unless some of the regular retailers has picked it up. Green silicon carbide, vitreous bond as far as I can tell, and rings like an Arkansas. I believe the Deluxe series stones sold in the US are clay binder, and I would expect to see mud from them, but I've not researched to see if there is a 300 grit in the series different than mine.

It takes serious pressure to remove grit from mine, as in a fat guy leaning on it. Far more than any rational person should be using to sharpen anything, let alone a knife! I've flattened four plane blades and four chisels, then ground new bevels on all of them to fix issues from previous sharpenings and to remove chips and rust pits and there is NO wear I can detect. Cuts as fast as it did after I just refreshed it and no signs of going out of flat. No grit in the swarf. Nothing resembling mud.

There is no need to soak mine, water doesn't sink into it enough to notice, and it's bone dry the next day after I use it.
Click to expand...

This is the King 300 sold in the US, which presumably is the one the OP has...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0050ADA2U/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_BLawFbKE70QJW
 
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Very even scratches about what you'd expect, no random deep ones. I follow it with a Beston 600. Another very hard, slow wearing stone that cuts very quickly and evenly. AlOx rather than SiC.
 
I would surmise that gray stone is a clay binder stone. Not like mine at all. Mine was almost a C-note 15 years ago.

At the price, though, I may just buy it for kicks and see, I can always pass it on if it's identical to mine or is a muddy mess.
 
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Stu had to quit some years back -- which should tell you how long this stone has stayed flat for me. Only flattened it twice since I got it.
 
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