King kds combo permasoak
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I've heard of that happening. I've permasoaked mine with no bad results though.
I permasoak mine
coffeelover191919
Senior Member
i dont understand... even if you can... why would you, if theres any chance that it can crack? Why not just soak it before using it and store it away?
Knife2meatu
Senior Member
I've had a KW-65 soaking for something like 2 years now. Doing fine, although I don't dare try to dry it at this point. I'm not exactly sure the 6k sides are the same on KDS and KW65, however; in fact, I'm sure they're different, but unsure if it makes a difference.
Setting aside the matter of storing a container of water, permasoaked stones are quick as splash-&-go to start sharpening on, and quicker still to put away. Not to mention that good feedback and feeling comes far cheaper from soakers than splashers, I'd say.
I have used the toilet tank. I first started permasoaking it before I read of any issues.
I've even left it work. Came back to work after 2 days, the 6k side partially submerged and it was fine. But that was probably the humidity? It was at the other side of the room from the dish machine.
But I've read the 6k side can crumble. So I have no idea. Maybe different batches?
I've even left it work. Came back to work after 2 days, the 6k side partially submerged and it was fine. But that was probably the humidity? It was at the other side of the room from the dish machine.
But I've read the 6k side can crumble. So I have no idea. Maybe different batches?
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
There is this video by Ryky. His complaint was that, after soaking for 24 hours, the 6000 side didn't cut or polish very well.
I've used the KDS a fair bit. Each time, I just throw the stone into water for about ten minutes (both sides submerged). So far, that has worked fine, and I've had not had any issues with it not cutting fast enough, or developing cracks, or disintegrating (or any other kind of problem). I have no idea whether perma-soaking really makes the stone perform worse or not. But I'm pretty sure that it isn't necessary.
I've used the KDS a fair bit. Each time, I just throw the stone into water for about ten minutes (both sides submerged). So far, that has worked fine, and I've had not had any issues with it not cutting fast enough, or developing cracks, or disintegrating (or any other kind of problem). I have no idea whether perma-soaking really makes the stone perform worse or not. But I'm pretty sure that it isn't necessary.
Ah yes, i actually quite liked his videoes back then. He is the same guy who claimed all the "6000 grit"- king stones are not the same stones with the same bonds, the combo stone from his video are supposed to not handle longer/perma soaking well, while others are just fine.
I dont have any hard cold evidence of this, but i could imagine this is a never ending discussion
I dont have any hard cold evidence of this, but i could imagine this is a never ending discussion
Knife2meatu
Senior Member
Wasn't Ryky's entire measuring system based on how fast he could get a burr? I seem to recall that's what made his analysis so absurd to me: "I Can't raise a burr quickly on the soaked 6k, so it's not cutting anymore." Meanwhile, it's clearly darkening up with swarf in the slurry.
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
Part of his complaint was that the stone didn't seem to polish as well as it did normally. Regardless, the point here isn't to dispute or confirm what he did or concluded. To me, it's more that it's difficult to establish absolute truth.
Ryky came up with a particular finding. He may (or not) have drawn the correct conclusions at the time he tried this. Were I to try the same thing today, I might come up with a different result. If I did, that doesn't necessarily mean that Ryky was wrong. Instead, it could mean that, for example, King decided to change to a different binding material in the mean time, so what I'm testing is nothing like what other people were testing two or three years ago.
As far as perma-soaking is concerned, the one observation I have is that no manufacturer (as far as I know) recommends doing it. That may be because the manufacturer thinks that there is no point, or that it might harm the stone. Or it might be because the manufacturer knows that, actually, yes, perma-soakikg is better but, "if we tell everyone to do that, we'll sell only half as many stones." How am I supposed to know, unless I buy two King KDS stones, perma-soak one, but not the other, and then sharpen identical knives repeatedly for several months to see whether there is any difference? (And, yes, to make that scientifically valid, it would have to be done double blinded; we are rapidly headed towards ridiculousness here…)
I think there is also a tendency to over-complicate things. It's a King KDS for 65 bucks or so. Do we really need to obsess endlessly over whether to perma-soak the stone or not? It's really simple: I have a knife that is blunt and needs sharpening. I throw the KDS into water for ten or twenty minutes, sharpen the knife and—voilà—a few minutes later, the knife is sharp again.
What is all this actually about? Getting the knife sharp again, or something else that has little to do with getting the knife sharp? Does it really matter whether I got the knife sharp on a stone that was perma-soaked or not? Why did I put the knife to the stone in the first place?
Knife2meatu
Senior Member
The 1k side benefits from long soaks and can withstand indefinite soaking, so the question arises, can the 6k side also be soaked. It's often said that soaking might damage the 6k side. Ryky's claim is that the 6k side doesn't cut after a night's soak; Ryky's measure for a stone's cutting speed is how fast it raises a burr, which isn't actually a concern for the 6k. Ryky's video would have one believe that the soaked combo stone wouldn't work to sharpen knives to 6k, 'because the soaked stone doesn't cut'.
Based on my own soaked KW65, it doesn't fall apart, and it still cuts; it doesn't become unmanageably soft, either. And I think the 'near-mirror polish' Ryky is complaining the soaked stone doesn't yield but his dry stone did, is because the wet & muddy 6k gives a more hazy finish -- don't people like that kasumi stuff?
My point isn't that someone wanting to have sharp knives should permasoak their King 1k/6k. But rather than no one should listen to about 90% of what Ryky says: Dude's got a gigantic megaphone to say half-researched, half-understood BS, and doesn't have the curiosity -- or the time, or the inclination, or the financial interest... -- to make sure he only makes well considered and verified recommendations or statements.
Based on my own soaked KW65, it doesn't fall apart, and it still cuts; it doesn't become unmanageably soft, either. And I think the 'near-mirror polish' Ryky is complaining the soaked stone doesn't yield but his dry stone did, is because the wet & muddy 6k gives a more hazy finish -- don't people like that kasumi stuff?
My point isn't that someone wanting to have sharp knives should permasoak their King 1k/6k. But rather than no one should listen to about 90% of what Ryky says: Dude's got a gigantic megaphone to say half-researched, half-understood BS, and doesn't have the curiosity -- or the time, or the inclination, or the financial interest... -- to make sure he only makes well considered and verified recommendations or statements.
All I can say about this is that mine turned to mush. I stopped trying this since I wasn't the only one and looked like the official recommendation was not to soak the 6000 at all. Looking for it right now, that recommendation seems to have been removed. I have no idea when. It's been a while.
I did find something else, though. Someone says they are radioactive (as of 2019). Well...
I did find something else, though. Someone says they are radioactive (as of 2019). Well...
The only reason I permasoak it is because of the 6k side. The 1k side was always an easy stone for me to use. The 6k when soaked becomes a good stone to me.
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
The different experiences with the 6000 seem to suggest that King may have changed the binder at some point? It would explain why some people have no problems with perma-soaking, while others do.
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That's my guess. I bought mine in August or September 2018.
holdmyphone
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I have one that cracked, it still works fine and I use it. It happened after I soaked it for an extended period and then let it dry out completely. Also noticed the 6000 side not working as well as it had when soaked for a short period or splashed.
I think 10-20 minute soak, sharpen, let it dry. No permasoak.
I think 10-20 minute soak, sharpen, let it dry. No permasoak.
Helmore
Well-Known Member
That's such an empty statement. Of course it's radioactive. Ordinary bricks are also radioactive, it's why you receive a higher radiation dosage inside most buildings than you do outside in a forest or something. Pretty much everything is radioactive, which makes such a statement kind of useless.
Don't ruin the moment for me and another 55 people, please. Thank you!
In other news, still was funny:
In other news, still was funny:
