Lamson Collaboration: Next Step

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well if we are doing numbers (not sure where this stared lol) I would prefer to have 21 if possible, always been my number in sports and such
 
Numbers??? Whoa whoa. Haha. We'll see....
 
if they're gonna be numbered then I want #1, committed to one !
 
would be cool to have a number and a first production run label on it like more common non-kitchen knives. lol. =D
 
oh, and im committed to one for sure, and hope to know about the second shortly, a week or two.
 
Sorry about the quiet thread lately. I've been run off my ass the past little bit and I just went back to work on Monday. Just trying to get back into the groove... I'll try to find out more info and get it to you guys soon.
 
No one's going any where Lefty, take your time and catch your breath. Thanks for looking out for all of us.
 
Great to see you guys haven't forgotten about us! :D

A little update for you all: the final prototype sketch is done, and being sent to Brian at
Lamson. We can't share the pics, because once it's out there, it's free game. However, it's all as a direct result of the group here, so it's going to be awesome!
 
This is so exiting! I really just want to slap somebody right now, or moonwalk. Maybe I'll just moonwalk now, and slap somebody later...
 
Lefty, Just to recap so that I'm clear on what is to come. Once Lamson agrees to manufacture the blades, a 50% deposit will be required from those seeking one (or more) and then the final amount they're made?

Has the the profile, HT, steel, handle and length already been determined? I'm pretty sure we're building a low flat Chubby-Gyuto-laser with a useful tip right?
 
Just a quick rundown:

O1
Sab inspired profile (no guard!!!)
Wa-estern hybrid/throwback handle with cocobolo and G10 ferrule
Approximately 3mm at the spine, with a wicked distal taper
51mm heel height
250mm edge length, and 380mm overall
THIN behind the edge

Lamson is already more than on board. In fact, Brian is pumped! The deposit would have to come once the prototype has been tried out and telesales have been made (I believe).

Thanks guys! This is going to be great. :D
 
My turn :D
The drawing s complete, you all have seen the screen capture, you have also seen the handle (mock up number 2) Nothing has changed, I just did a cad drawing of it all together, place the appropriate pin holes, in the proper location, and sent it to Lamson.
They will laser cut a few pieces, some will be used to build their grinding fixtures.
2 will come to me to prototype. These will go on a little passaround. Once our lucky "testers"report back, one prototype will return to me, the other will go to Lamson. They will use it as the model for the build (a physical template, they can take measurements from) Brian will send me and/or Tom an initial production prototype, and then we will give our nod or wink to proceed.

The heat treat will be done at Peters, to my specs.
 
Shouldn't the prototypes be measured prior to passaround? There should be a decent amount of use/abuse in the passaround for these knives, and sharpening will change the knives. A pre/post passaround comparison would be interesting.

Also while I think a lot of us will want to be part of the passaround, should consider having two groups:
1. Beta testers
2. General passaround

The beta testers, a smaller group, will beat on the knife and run it through production work to provide valuable feedback and refinement on the knife. Once the knife has made it through the beta testers, we will have go/no-go features and decisions for manufacturing.

At this point, the prototypes can be available for general passaround.

The reason for the above structure is three folds:
1. Beta testers have incentive to provide constructive feedback in a timely manner
2. Limits number of testers as there are diminishing returns and will delay time to market
3. Allow non-testers who would still very much appreciate be included in a passaround.
 
You know, I've seen a couple of these projects and think it's cool but I've made a point of staying out of them. One of the reasons is because someone somewhere is going to capitalize on the expertise freely given on this or other forums. I'm not talking about Lefty, Pierre or any other craftsmen here. I'm talking about a fairly good sized company that is going to get a boat load of expert consulting for free. Maybe I'm jaded but I think someone should give thought to design protection.

I hate to bring real world stuff into this but if you're fine with the thought, more power to you.

There is some history behind my thoughts.
 
Salty, I love the fact that you call business what it is. A fine idea about design protection, and a lawyer may not be too expensive for something like this. I do believe that this knife could definitely wind up making it's way to a much more general though professional audience; it could wind up being something fairly valuable to those with the vested interest (Tom and Pierre) if they protect the design and follow-through with some outside marketing exposure. Makes sense to at least think this part through before an 'oh crap' moment once it's too late.
 
Well we all get a cut since we contributed (granted varied amounts lol). Maybe a free knife after you guys win a big copyright infringement suit :)
 
There are confidentially agreements, and nondisclosure agreements drawn up. Also intellectual property laws.
 
PierreRodrigue said:
There are confidentially agreements, and nondisclosure agreements drawn up. Also intellectual property laws.
Click to expand...

Very good. You and Tom should have agreements in place with Lamson. While there is a lot of participation and feedback from the forum, you guys have really driven this project forward and synthesized all the comments into something that should prove quite interesting.

The platypus was designed by committee is absolutely correct. This knife was not designed by committee. Everyone gave opinions, but you put it all together as well as providing the profile design, specs, and working through the bolster/handle variations through mock ups.

Yes, a lot of people contributed. But I think a lot of it was freely given without expectation of payment. A contribution to KKF for each sale of the knife would be nice, as this project would not have happened without the forum and Dave's blessing.
 
don said:
Yes, a lot of people contributed. But I think a lot of it was freely given without expectation of payment. A contribution to KKF for each sale of the knife would be nice, as this project would not have happened without the forum and Dave's blessing.
Click to expand...


That's nice of you to think of KKF, and myself as well, but the vendors pay to advertise and do business here so what revenue they generate on a project like this will not (should not) have anything to do with the forum or myself, it's all theirs.

I do wish Pierre and Tom good luck with this project though! :)
 
I'm still excited, damn where's my delorean when I need it. There's always copycats and sometimes not much to deal with it. Lamson get off your heels this is good schtuff.. :)
 
Notaskinnychef said:
Well we all get a cut since we contributed (granted varied amounts lol). Maybe a free knife after you guys win a big copyright infringement suit :)
Click to expand...

I'm not an attorney but having written a couple of books I know a little bit about copyright and here's my take (which one should take with a lot of salt). Maybe there is an IP lawyer in the forum?? First off, in the case of a collaborative work the copyright rules are extremely tricky. If this knife is considered a collaborative work, sheesh! (The problem is everybody whose ideas appear in the knife is a partial copyright holder automatically absent written agreements.)

Next, assuming the shape is distinctive enough to qualify under the sculpture category which is the only category I would think applies (although again lawyers can be awfully clever...), it's automatically copyrighted, one doesn't have to do a darn thing in the US anymore. (Although, in order to be eligible for statutory damages, which are much higher, you do have to register the copyright.)

However, I should point out (as I suspect many of us have noticed) that when I try to explain kitchen knife shapes to my friends, it seems to them knife shapes differences are very subtle and evolutionary except for something like a Kramer and I am not sure that anything but a really distinctive shape like a Kramer or a Ken Onion knife would be enough to qualify for a sculpture category copyright. Just imagining my friends on a jury, I suspect they certainly wouldn't vote to convict, unless they felt the shape was really distinctive and not just an evolution of existing designs - although a judges instructions would change that of course....

Maybe we get Lamson to say that the knife is a limited edition and may only be sold once?? That would be way cool and I would certainly buy more than the one I am committed to!
 
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