Looking for a replacement for my current Wusthof Chef's knife

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Maarteas

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Hello everyone,

Due to an unfortunate mishap my current knife's handle got damaged, it's repairable (still have to get a quote on that). But it made me start looking into what i'd want into a replacement. Started reading (mostly on this forums) and you might say i've caught the bug.
Though i must say i'm properly overwhelmed with all the options that are available and i hope you can shine a light on what would fit my needs best.

An option i've been looking at was a shigeki tanaka aogami damascus gyuto 180mmor a kagemitsu vg-10 tsuchime gyuto
But i'm both unfamiliar with the site and both are a bit smaller than i'm used to now.

Thank you for your time!

Maarten

Questionaire:
LOCATION
What country are you in?
The Netherlands


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Chef’s knife

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Western or round, the hexagonal or octagonal seem uncomfortable though i have 0 experience with them.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
200mm, 210mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
150 to 200ish


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Chopping, Slicing and mincing vegetables, slicing meats and portioning fish.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Wusthof Ikon 200mm chef’s knife

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Mostly a pinch grip where my thumb and index are just behind the blade.

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
I’m told i use a european style of cutting, and the rocking kind of motion sounds like how i cut, though the push cut seems to me a way of cutting that i use as well.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
The Wusthof did it’s job, though edge retention might have been a bit short. Although i have no experience vs other knives. I tend to read about what i want to buy, read a lot. And you guys got me curious for a knife that should perform better than the german steels.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
If it had some kind of finish, damascus or pattern steel would be a plus, no requirement. Though i know from myself that if i can get a similar knife but with some aesthetics, i might reach a bit deeper into my pockets :)

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
I’m used to the heavier Wusthof, guess it can only get better?

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Preferably smoother rock chopping, push cutting. So i think that the Santoku is out of the question. Would a Gyuto fit better?
Still learning how to sharpen, last time i was quite content with the result.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
I’ve got a set of Naniwa stones (400/1000/3000) and a leather strop for a even better finish (never used the leather though).


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Wood and synthethic (fish and chicken)

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes, willing to improve

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
I don’t think thats needed with the gear i have currently


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
Click to expand...
 
Someone will give you better help than I can as I'm also a relatively newb to this, but I would advise against getting a smaller knife than what you are used to. On the contrary, I'd suggest the opposite. Get a 240. You will spend a couple hours adjusting and afterwards, you'll ask yourself how come you hadn't gotten a bigger knife in the first place..

180 is small.
 
I'm going to offer a counterpoint above. Only consider the 240 if you just worried it seems big or overkill. If you are comfortable with what you have and the length feels right stick with it.
 
The Tanaka is a great choice. The site you posted appears to have the less than stellar stock handle with plastic ferrule--I'd take a hard look at the Knives and Stones Tanakas. 210mm in blue ii Damascus or kurouchi are in stock with vastly upgraded ebony handles and all the rough edges nicely smoothed. If the new stainless clad model is restocking soon that may be an even better choice, as the Tanaka cladding (at least my Damascus) can be rather high maintainence to begin with
 
If you're okay with a budget handle and fully reactive knife the Yamawaku offered by Japansemessen is a sick value too. I have a 210 that has been a stellar performer. I believe it is the Wakui/Toshihirosaku smith. While those specific lines will vary and this is very much his budget line, I was impressed with the finish for its price. Smooth spine and choil on mine, and awesome textured kurouchi finish that's held up pretty well.
 
Tanaka 210 stainless clad or tanaka 210 ginsanko. Wakui at bernal cutlery, ittinomonn at Japanese natural stones. I would also consider Takamura R2 red handles 210 gyuto. Those are probably the best a man can get.
 
I also would find a 180 too limiting. Consider, at least, the 210. Of course, the bottom line is that you should get what you want though.
 
I agree that a 180 would be too small. Coming from an eight inch German knife, 210 will likely feel smaller in hand than what you're used to. Check out japanesenaturalstones.com, they should have a few knives that fit your budget. Itonomonn makes very high quality blades for the money
 
ryanjams said:
The Tanaka is a great choice. The site you posted appears to have the less than stellar stock handle with plastic ferrule--I'd take a hard look at the Knives and Stones Tanakas. 210mm in blue ii Damascus or kurouchi are in stock with vastly upgraded ebony handles and all the rough edges nicely smoothed. If the new stainless clad model is restocking soon that may be an even better choice, as the Tanaka cladding (at least my Damascus) can be rather high maintainence to begin with
Click to expand...

Have to second that, and the customer service from James at KnS is great.

He carries multiple Tanaka lines and for comparable pricing you get much much better handles as well as fit and finish.

http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka/
 
All of the above. Except Malex.:cool:

I don't remember specifics but recall that my first J knife, 270mm G Ginga weighed less than my 6" Henckels. Balanced better too. Suggest you go with 210 vice 180. Try a 240 if you can.
 
daveb said:
All of the above. Except Malex.:cool:

I don't remember specifics but recall that my first J knife, 270mm G Ginga weighed less than my 6" Henckels. Balanced better too. Suggest you go with 210 vice 180. Try a 240 if you can.
Click to expand...

:(
 
Godslayer said:
Tanaka 210 stainless clad or tanaka 210 ginsanko. Wakui at bernal cutlery, ittinomonn at Japanese natural stones. I would also consider Takamura R2 red handles 210 gyuto. Those are probably the best a man can get.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat: A lot of wisdom right there!

+1 for the 240 size too.

I'll ad to that, that since the Tanaka B2 SS clad 210 (and 240) and Tanaka ginsan 210 (and 240) are OOS and no one knows when they'll be available the next time you could look at the Tanaka B2 KU at K&S. Like others said James is a joy to deal with. The Tanaka B2 Damascus is also a good choice but it is one of the most reactive blades you will ever come across.

Itinomonn stainLess kasumi is a bargain at 210 size. The 240 is over budget, but there's a 15% discount that pulls it close and the shipping is free. They are middleweight knives with laser type cutting abilities and good food release. The profile is one of my favourites. If KU finish appeals to you check out the Munetoshi gyuto. It offers sensational value too. There's a thread going about it worth checking. JNS is closed until January, but you get that nice 15% discount for waiting and January is right around the corner anyway.

Metalmaster has just received a fresh batch of very affordable Tanakas. Check the VG10 Damascus 210 and 240 gyutos. MM versions are roughly finnished though, but they cut the same. AND if you are set on the 180 size there's a VG10 Damascus 190 that would tick all your boxes. Plus it's absolutely dirt cheap at 70 bucks. MM is slow to ship though (takes a few weeks usually) so you'll receive your order even from JNS much faster.

The Takamura is a light super thin laser with cutting abilities second to none and very good edge retention (best edge retention of the group).
The Wakui is very similar to Itinomonn stainLess Kasumi except with a white steel carbon core. I don't own a Wakui, but it gets all kinds of love here.
Tanaka B2 KU is a little thick behind the edge, but still cuts well with good food release. Easiest to sharpen of the bunch along with the Wakui.
Tanaka VG10 very good at everything but not mind blowingly great at anything. Food release, cutting abilities, edge retention etc. all good.
Munetoshi has probably the best food release, easy to sharpen. I don't have one, but check the Munetoshi thread.

Is your head spinning yet? :dazed:
 
If you want a Japanese chef's knife that is delivered next day: Sakai Takayuki from knivesandtools.nl. Don't own or used one myself though, i went for the Kanso Aogami. Positive experience with the return policy as well.
 
JaVa said:
Is your head spinning yet? :dazed:
Click to expand...
^exactly that yes :laugh:

First off i want to thank you all for all the recommendations and advice.

Seems to me that one of these two will fit my wishes the most. As a Tanaka Damascus would be to reactive, next to that i'm going for a bigger 240mm instead of downsizing to 180 as that indeed will be getting to small.
Tanaka
Munetoshi

Would the Munetoshi thread be this one? Thread
For some reason the search option doesn't give me any results on this forums and that was the only hit using google.
The Munetoshi is a bit higher in price than the Tanaka (importing a Tanaka from Australia puts the prices closer together thoguh) , is it just that? Import or is it to do with quality or steel used as well?

Seems that i'm asking a lot.. :) How easy is Kurouchi to clean? The rough finish looks like it might ask for a bit more thorough cleaning. Mind i'm used to a straight steel so hence i'm asking :O

Final question, the 8th picture on the Tanaka url i linked above, for some reason that centre doesn't look straight, is that lighting or is something else going on?

Ok, time to go to bed, 02:16 over here..

Thanks again

Maarten
 
No worries about cleaning the KU. Since you have to clean a carbon knife right after use anyway the food doesn't get time to dry and really stick to it. Simple wipe with a sponge and it's clean as a whistle. Only disadvantage to KU is if you happen to have a mishap with your knife once and you get rust on the KU part, you can scour off the rust but then you have clear spots amid the black. No way to really restore the old look after that. It doesn't happen easily though, never happened to me too, but my KU knife was pre-owned and i got it with some rust spots. The ones on the clear part i could fix pretty well but the damage to the KU finish is irreversible.
 
Ooh, that's good to know! Thanks Merlijn

I've just read a bit about KU and one of the things is that it can come off the knife, not something i was aware off. If i understood it correctly it comes down to the quality of the KU how "stuck" it is to the knife.
I just noticed that the 240mm Munetoshi isn't available at the moment which is a shame cause i am definitely considering taking the plunge for a 240mm knife and i'm leaning more towards a Munetoshi than a Tanaka for some reason.
not sure what the best option is right now, settle for a 210 Munetoshi (which is still a bit bigger than i have now), wait for a 240mm te be available again. or Go for a Tanaka.

Reasoning for why i'm leaning more towards the Munetoshi is that it seems to be a bit better in quality, though that might be minor. But also because i'll be ordering from within the EU which means less transport, no customs nor clearance fees.
What do you guys think? Am i not giving Tanaka enough credit and would that be the best choice?

Cheers
 
Can't answer your other questions as i have handled neither one. One thing I must warn you about though is listed lengths with Japanese blades. With western makers it is all pretty straightforward. The tape starts at the heel and ends at the tip, end of story. Japanese sometimes measure the actual edge, other times they start at the handle, which they typically have at an offset from the blade, and some other times the listed measurements just seem a bit off, as it is difficult to get the listed value to agree with anything you can get a measurement tape to read. If you read this forum you will encounter phrases like 'it runs a bit short', meaning the writer likes the knife and respects the maker and is therefore content and polite, but the knife was shorter than he expected. To say that when you get a 210 listed knife it is longer than the 200 Wustie you have has a large chance of being false. I have a 250mm Sabatier and a 240 listed Eden Kanso Aogami, and when i lay them next to one another the difference in blade length is closer to 3cm than to 2. Also even when you are used to pinch gripping a Western knife, due to handle shape you tend to grip a J-knife a bit more forwardish, making it feel yet another cm shorter than it actually is. All that said, you are almost guaranteed to find your blade totally f***ing awesome when it arrives
 
Ok, then it comes down to me really wanting a 240 over a 210, so the Munetoshi is out unfortunately.

Another option might be a syousin-suminagashi
It's a bit above my initial budget but i might up that a bit :)

What do you guys think?
 
Maarteas said:
Ok, then it comes down to me really wanting a 240 over a 210, so the Munetoshi is out unfortunately.

Another option might be a syousin-suminagashi
It's a bit above my initial budget but i might up that a bit :)

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

If your OK with the higher price. Like they say at Nike: JUST DO IT! :doublethumbsup:
Great allround performer. Nicely thin behind the edge for almost laser like cutting skills, but still has some spine for some power, convex grind for food release, stays sharp with the best of them and is relatively easy to sharpen, Good F&F over all.

IMO this would be a perfect candidate to be a one and done knife.
Although there's never just a one there's always the two and three and... and... and...
...down into the dark and bottomless rabbit whole you go. Don't worry, you won't be alone. There's a lot of fun company sharing that free fall with you. So just relax, Share some experiences and enjoy the wind in your hair! :knife:

... Then next stop Munetoshi Ville and before you know it you've reached Tanaka Town. :lol2:
 
Maarteas said:
Ok, then it comes down to me really wanting a 240 over a 210, so the Munetoshi is out unfortunately.

Another option might be a syousin-suminagashi
It's a bit above my initial budget but i might up that a bit :)

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

Have you considered the stainless clad Kurosaki also from JnS? I got the Migaki Holiday special shortly after picking up the shiro kamo syousin suminagashi and have been neglecting the kamo as a result.
 
Oh god, what have i gotten into @JaVa ;)

Unfortunately after long meetings with my managing director we have to conclude that extra funds will not be forthcoming :sad0:
So the syousin-suminagashi is out of reach unfortunately.

@Benuser, I'm familiar with Knives and tools. Got a folder by Spyderco from them and also all my wetstones are from their store. I've seen the Robert Herder which looks like a nice knife, but for me the Bolster is not something i'm looking for in a knife.

@xsmx13, i tried looking for the knife that you meant, but whichever input i used, i could not find what you we're referring to. Could you help me with a link?

I've been searching for web-stores in German as well, I've got access to a German address so shipping would be way cheaper that way, hence i came upon Wakui-V2-Kurouchi-Gyuto-24-cm.
Wakui is getting praise as well, i'm not familiar with V2 steel so no idea what to expect from that. The handle looks a bit shiny and hence a bit plastic, though the write-up underneath says it's chestnut.

Crap, typing that i just noticed it's already sold.. :eyebrow:

Seems to me that the Tanaka will be the best fit :biggrin:

Thanks all!
 
Maarteas said:
Oh god, what have i gotten into @JaVa ;)

Unfortunately after long meetings with my managing director we have to conclude that extra funds will not be forthcoming :sad0:
So the syousin-suminagashi is out of reach unfortunately.

@Benuser, I'm familiar with Knives and tools. Got a folder by Spyderco from them and also all my wetstones are from their store. I've seen the Robert Herder which looks like a nice knife, but for me the Bolster is not something i'm looking for in a knife.

@xsmx13, i tried looking for the knife that you meant, but whichever input i used, i could not find what you we're referring to. Could you help me with a link?

I've been searching for web-stores in German as well, I've got access to a German address so shipping would be way cheaper that way, hence i came upon Wakui-V2-Kurouchi-Gyuto-24-cm.
Wakui is getting praise as well, i'm not familiar with V2 steel so no idea what to expect from that. The handle looks a bit shiny and hence a bit plastic, though the write-up underneath says it's chestnut.

Crap, typing that i just noticed it's already sold.. :eyebrow:

Seems to me that the Tanaka will be the best fit :biggrin:

Thanks all!
Click to expand...

Since you were looking at that Wakui. How about this one From Shiro Kamo?
http://cleancut.se/butik/knivserier...3-08-22-12-33-182013-08-22-12-33-18-54-detail
I have it in 225 and it offers some serious bang for buck. VERY economically friendly option without giving anything away in performance or F&F. The site is in Swedish, but just use the Google translator.
 
Hi! Yeah i knew it would be the Black dragon from cleancut ;)) but thats a real bargain knife.. we had a same discussion in a german forum but in the end it will be the K&S Tanaka .. better finish and the handle alone is awesome and not really more higher price.. i think thats the best bang for the bug "my first j-carbon" around.. but its super hard to decide ;)) the more you know the less you know ;))
 
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