Massmoto KS 270 Gyuto

Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
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MikeHL said:
The KS started it all, and a couple years ago the KS was a very hot item on the forums. Then other makers caught on and made their own version the the KS.

Here are just some:Sakai Yusuke, Ashi GINGA, Moritaka, konosuke fuji (to some extent), the-site-that-can't-be-named Ultimatum. Not sure where the Tesshu stands.

They all have there very own take on the KS, so they might be worth a look. But I will leave that to the others with experience with the said knives.
Click to expand...

Can you elaborate a bit on what it is the KS started and the other makers copies? The profile, the cross-sectional geometry, the grind, something else?
 
Thanks. I found a nice picture of a Masamoto KS on this forum:



What I see, regarding the profile, is a very long flat "spot" (it's a stretch - from the heel to about 2/3 of the blade) and then a curve upward. Is this what many people like so much?
 
Thanks Ben. I thought rock-chopping was something typically European and push-cutting something Japanese. But apparently I was completely wrong?
 
Ah... now I understand it (the technique and the knife profile. Have you got any references to the traditional French technique or knife profile, apart from the one above?

And now I look at my kitchen knives, my Richmond Artifex gyuto also has a very long flat part at the edge. Is this also a copy of the Masomoto KS profile?
 
mark76 said:
And now I look at my kitchen knives, my Richmond Artifex gyuto also has a very long flat part at the edge. Is this also a copy of the Masomoto KS profile?
Click to expand...

You can bet your last dollar that he copied something from someone...don't believe he's ever had an idea of his own...
 
Chinacats, it's completely clear you don't like Mark Richmond. But it was not my intention to start this discussion here again.
 
the profile looks very much like my Konosuke White #2
 
And now we're on the subject, is this what is called the traditional Sabatier profile?
 
The 10 and 12" chef's knives give you an idea.
http://www.thebestthings.com/knives/sabatier_nogent.htm

It's the type of chef's knife that made Jean Auguste Sabatier famous. His model was adopted by makers world wide. German blades of the 1890's or even the 20's have more in common with that profile than with today's German knives.
When the Japanese started to produce Western knives they took the Sabatier as an example.
 
Here modern French blades with a large deadly flat section (picture by Rick's courtesy). The flat part is used for chopping herbs holding the knife horizontally by both hands. No walking nor Wiegeschnitt please. Push-cutting à la Française.

 
The KS has an even more pronounced gentle curve up to the point. It is like a typical gyutos in the back ⅔, and a Suji in the front. Very handy.

What would be even handier is a 210 version...
 
Here a miniature knife by Jean Auguste Sabatier. Probably never sharpened, so we may get an idea of what was pursued.

 
Benuser said:
Here modern French blades with a large deadly flat section (picture by Rick's courtesy). The flat part is used for chopping herbs holding the knife horizontally by both hands. No walking nor Wiegeschnitt please. Push-cutting à la Française.

Click to expand...

Thanks Ben. But when I look at this picture, the flat section of the gyuto seems to run to about half of the blade or even less, not to about 2/3 of the blade, as with the Masamoto. Do I intererpret this correctly? (I'm not trying to make any value judgements, just trying to understand the different profiles.)

A flat section until about half of the blade is present on most of my J-knives. It seems sort of the standard profile on most of these knives.

Benuser said:
Here a miniature knife by Jean Auguste Sabatier. Probably never sharpened, so we may get an idea of what was pursued.

Click to expand...

And on this picture the flat section seems to be very long: maybe running until 3/4 of the blade.

If I have to interpret these pictures, I'd say that Sabatiers have a long flat spot, but it seems to run from about 1/2 of the blade (which is fairly common on J-knives) to 3/4 of the blade (which is sort-of present on the Masamoto KS). Is this interpretation correct?
 
 
Top knife is KS, 4 star elephant Nogent Sabatier, high end German knife (Leder w/ custom profile) ;), Shigefusa...

Shouldn't really try to compare the Shig profile because it's a different length

...yeah KS not exactly like any of the Sabs, but all the Sabs are slightly different too.

FWIW, I still have the Sab, but sold the KS
 
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