Masters of R2/SG2

[matchplay18]

Like most people that post here I have several Japanese Knives. I am not sure how many R2/SG2 Knives I have had threw the years only to move on to the next Unicorn. The one constant I have kept all these years a Nickle hammered finished Miyabi Artiason R2/SG2 I absolutely love this knife. I seldom have to sharpen just a little proactive maintenance.

 

[captaincaed]

OK I have a small pet peeve. For a thread focused on a steel, so little talk about the actual steel. It's a question I care about too, but all I'm seeing is rounded corners and hammered finishes or "good heat treat" without any explanatory details to shed light.

Maybe I need to take my complaints to unpopular opinions and stop bitching and moaning here. Maybe I should finish making coffee before posting

 

[dough]

I too was following along to see if there was anything to learn. I love my ryusen which I guess isn’t a flavor many care about lately.
I have no other sg2/r2 to compare although I have sharpened a few mentioned in this thread.

I have more useful thoughts on sharpening them then performance other then the ryusen. I have also had the ryusen longer then this forum has been around.

Oh I’ll share my thoughts of my ryusen sg2/r2 but they are hardly new bc I know others have said it but I find the steel can get very sharp however it loses that edge rather quick then holds a functional edge for a very long time. A quick strop or light run over stones can maintain it for a long time. It’s a very annoying steel to deburr. I also think diamond stones or very fast cutting aggressive stones are the best way to maintain this steel. It tends to feel slippery and be slow going off softer stones. In general I don’t think it’s a very “good” or “satisfying” feel to sharpen.

Anyway carry on. I often tell home users that ask me to get the myabi/shun in sg2 bc I think it’s great for a home kit that is potentially rarely sharpened beyond maybe once a year and just take all the abuse or neglect.

 

[shinyunggyun]

only R2/SG2 knives that Id personally consider are Shigeki Tanaka (own one of these) or Myojin.

Are myojin, shigeki Tanaka really that much better than sukenari?

 

[Delat]

OK I have a small pet peeve. For a thread focused on a steel, so little talk about the actual steel. It's a question I care about too, but all I'm seeing is rounded corners and hammered finishes or "good heat treat" without any explanatory details to shed light.

Maybe I need to take my complaints to unpopular opinions and stop bitching and moaning here. Maybe I should finish making coffee before posting

Are you looking for discussion of how R2 compares to other steels, or how R2 compares from one brand to another?

I have R2 knives from Myojin, Shiro Kamo, and Shibata. Honestly the different grind and profiles of the knives drown out any distinction I could make between the heat treats or whatever else might distinguish the actual steels. Maybe I just don’t have enough board time with them to identify differences and in a few years I might have a more informed opinion.

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

Are myojin, shigeki Tanaka really that much better than sukenari?

Myojin is slightly thinner behind the edge than Takamura, which is slightly thinner bte than S Tanaka, which is thinner bte than Sukenari. Myojin grind really stands out. If I were to keep the Myojin I would rough up the polish so it doesn’t suck wet stuff sometimes. It is Konosuke FM type of ease in cutting. Sukenari grind works but it reminds me of my Seki factory made knives.

 

[chefwp]

One of the first J-knives I bought <2020> since a Misono I've had for over a decade (and didn't use much) was this Shiki Black Dragon in R2. It is western with a full tang, but still very light. A lot of the Black Dragon lines are in VG10 but there are some exceptions. The one I linked to has a laser geometry and is a great cutter, so if you favor a laserish knife I think I would recommend it. I did have to work out a few microchips, but it remains a mystery as to what kind or abuse from either my wife or myself may have caused those. She still uses this knife a lot, and haven't seen the issue repeat.

 

[Matt Jacobs]

Takamura and Tanaka are great choices - as already mentioned. As @btbyrd said, the cheaper red handled Takamuras (Migaki) can be prone to microchipping if handled sub-optimally. On the bright side they are easily restored on stones and a micro bevel will make them more durable. At their price point, a great intro to R2 knives.

Honourable mentions to Shiro Kamo and Yu Kurosaki. @Matt Jacobs - what was it you hated about your Kurosaki?
I've got also got R2 knives from Shiro Kamo, Mr Itou, Takeshi Saji and Mert Tansu. None have had enough use to form an opinion.

My Kurosaki had micro chipping issues. Only knife I have owned that did this after multiple sharpening. Otherwise it was fantastic.

 

[kpham12]

What are some of the best makers or brands for R2 steel? Mostly for thin lightweight gyutos.

Are you going to be doing mostly heavy prep or something more delicate like sushi?

Sukenari, Shigeki Tanaka, Shiro Kamo, Ryusen and Takamura (depending on the model) seem a little bit closer to middleweight than total laser. Being a little bit thicker out of the handle, the additional weight/forward balance and being a little thicker BTE might be better for banging away on poly boards and cutting lots of product all day.

I’ve handled the red handle Takamura, Makoto and Shibata in stores, but I’ve only owned a Kei Kobayashi and they are strictly lasers. The Kobayashi is scary thin out of the box. Very fun to use and cuts things like they aren’t even there. There is an impressive amount of convexing considering how thin the knife is, but food release is still below average like with most lasers and it is a bit delicate behind the edge so I wouldn’t really want to do hours and hours of prep with it as my only knife, but great for doing super thin slices, detail work, etc.

Myojin R2 looks great, laser thin behind the edge, closer to middleweight in overall grind, but expensive.

And I’ve used hollow grinds like Yu Kurosaki and Nigara. They definitely cut well and aren’t as delicate as a complete laser. The wide bevel can wedge a little, but nothing too noticeable. But you have to ask yourself if you want to deal with a hollow grind long term.

 

[jedy617]

+1 sukenari

 

[shinyunggyun]

Going with sukenari

 

[captaincaed]

It’s a very annoying steel to deburr. I also think diamond stones or very fast cutting aggressive stones are the best way to maintain this steel. It tends to feel slippery and be slow going off softer stones. In general I don’t think it’s a very “good” or “satisfying” feel to sharpen.

Thank God I'm not the only one. When people tell me R2 is easy to sharpen, I either feel crazy or like I got a dud knife. Maybe they just aren't great at deburring.

Great to hear your experience, Thanks for popping out of the woodwork.

 

[Nemo]

Thank God I'm not the only one. When people tell me R2 is easy to sharpen, I either feel crazy or like I got a dud knife. Maybe they just aren't great at deburring.

Great to hear your experience, Thanks for popping out of the woodwork.

Yeah, it's only "easy to sharpen" in the sense that if you rub it on a hard enough stone, you can raise a burr without too much trouble.

Getting rid of that burr is the trick.

The KDM works well for this steel and gives it the microbevel that it wants anyway.

I'm interested to try deburring it in the traditional way on a diamond stone.

 

[user 16756]

Thank God I'm not the only one. When people tell me R2 is easy to sharpen, I either feel crazy or like I got a dud knife. Maybe they just aren't great at deburring.

Great to hear your experience, Thanks for popping out of the woodwork.

not that this is a cheap/easy solution, but for hard to deburr steels I almost always reach for my harder Okudo suita. but in fact both of the ones I own are plenty hard/fast enough. I basically do Jon's pull technique but because youre trying to actually grind off the burr I find myself using a fair bit of pressure with tougher steels. tbh part of the reason I like white steel is that you can deburr on most any stone and R2 is definitely like, no reach for the fast/find/hard stuff which is always expensive.

 

[Matt Jacobs]

What kurosaki did you have and why did you hate it? I have a 240mm gyuto and I love it.

I had a bunka in the Shizuku line. Great knife overall but it suffered from constant microchips Only knife I have ever owned that did that after multiple sharpening sessions. I am sure it was just that particular knife and something wrong with the heat treat. I would still recommend a Kurosaki.

 

[Delat]

I had a bunka in the Shizuku line. Great knife overall but it suffered from constant microchips Only knife I have ever owned that did that after multiple sharpening sessions. I am sure it was just that particular knife and something wrong with the heat treat. I would still recommend a Kurosaki.

I seem to recall seeing a few people complaining of chipping back when I was researching kurosaki. He must’ve let a bad batch go out, unfortunately. I just took a close look at mine under 10x magnification and I have no chipping after a few months occasional light usage with no sharpening, so mine’s holding up well. It’s AS though, not R2.

 

[shinyunggyun]

Which vendor is best for a migaki sukenari r2 gyuto?

 

[jedy617]

Which vendor is best for a migaki sukenari r2 gyuto?

James from knives and stones is the man and old school KKF man so I'd say him. I think sugi also carries sukenari and Joe is also great.

 

[josemartinlopez]

For the laser-ish R2, I like the Raicho No Ren (KNIVES - Makers - Raicho Hamono - Coutelier, can't find the home page anymore but I got my set from Tower Knives in Japan) gyuto. Like it more than Yu Kurosaki, Makoto Kurosaki and Shibata Kotetsu, have not tried Sukenari, Takamura etc.