MIzuno Tanrenjo Honyaki Discussion

[toddnmd]

A recent BST post and ensuing discussion focused on the steels and quenching methods MIzuno uses.
Starting a new thread here for discussion.
I picked up a white #2 Honyaki gyuto in Sakai in October. He definitely told me it was water quenched.
Other thoughts and experiences?

 

[Midsummer]

Thanks Todd for the thread. I will be looking into this (as much as one can) from the internet. I suspect you may have to get closer to the forge to get the real low down.

I have two white and one blue and I would really like to know what is up. If I find anything I will report to this thread.

 

[Barry's Knives]

A recent BST post and ensuing discussion focused on the steels and quenching methods MIzuno uses.
Starting a new thread here for discussion.
I picked up a white #2 Honyaki gyuto in Sakai in October. He definitely told me it was water quenched.
Other thoughts and experiences?

Maybe a silly question. But is it definitely white 2 and not white 3? As some members have suggested that all mizuno white honyaki are the latter...

 

[Corradobrit1]

Maybe a silly question. But is it definitely white 2 and not white 3? As some members have suggested that all mizuno white honyaki are the latter...

This would answer the main focus of this thread. I've yet to see an example of mizu W#3 (haven't looked too hard though)

 

[esoo]

I cannot speak for Mizuno honyaki, but when I've seen other makes White Honyaki, oil quenched have been White 3, and water quenched have been White 2.

It is also interesting to note that at JCK, it is carefully written as "White Steel" for the honyaki and no number attached to it (from what I've been able to see).

While I have no idea as to the performance difference, generally abrura-honyaki is cheaper than mizu-honyaki from what I've seen, so this leads to questions if you don't know what you are getting (if you care about price/resale)

 

[Corradobrit1]

generally abrura-honyaki is cheaper than mizu-honyaki

Lower failure rate would account for the price differential between the different quench techniques.

 

[captaincaed]

Sometimes it's both. One trick I heard is to start the quench in water and finish in warm Parks50 (for lower viscosity and a more even quench). Allows the hamon to pop a bit, then allows for a more relaxed cooling. It's a whole lot more technical than that, but what would you label this knife? Water? Oil?
How much does it matter?

Source: Recent Knifetalk podcast (I think the Dec7 or Dec14 episodes)

 

[Corradobrit1]

Sometimes it's both. One trick I heard is to start the quench in water and finish in warm Parks50 (for lower viscosity and a more even quench). Allows the hamon to pop a bit, then allows for a more relaxed cooling. It's a whole lot more technical than that, but what would you label this knife? Water? Oil?
How much does it matter?

Guess it depends which part of the process water or oil, contributes most to the characteristics of the finished blade. Hardness>Aesthetics

 

[Barry's Knives]

Sometimes it's both. One trick I heard is to start the quench in water and finish in warm Parks50 (for lower viscosity and a more even quench). Allows the hamon to pop a bit, then allows for a more relaxed cooling. It's a whole lot more technical than that, but what would you label this knife? Water? Oil?
How much does it matter?

Well in terms of it mattering I just think its an interesting topic. For what its worth I've heard that ikedas white 3 oil quench is many peoples favourite honyaki. On the flip side maxim from jns prefers the feeling of stiffness attained from blue honyaki and opines that water quenching adds to that and gives a crisper feeling on the stones. I think that by working out what process is being used it gives people better insight on what they're buying, especially as many people have to essential buy 'blind' from online sellers. Whats more, different characteristics will align more to different people's interests. Some might really want a hamon that pops, others edge retention, others sharpenability or the feedback on stones. Working out what metal and what process is being used informs all of that.

 

[TSF415]

 

[Chuckles]

It seems to me that the white #3 conversation has started along side the introduction of the KS line. They have been selling white honyaki for a long time. This is a statement that all white honyaki from Mizuno throughout history have been #3?

 

[TSF415]

It seems to me that the white #3 conversation has started along side the introduction of the KS line. They have been selling white honyaki for a long time. This is a statement that all white honyaki from Mizuno throughout history have been #3?

Na, you right you right. Someone should ask mizuno. I’m sure that question and the quench question can both be answered.

 

[TSF415]

If they were made with white#2 before, it would also give jck some slack because they just never got around to changing the listings. A slightly less offensive misrepresentation of the product?!?

 

[Midsummer]

From a thread I started a few years ago about W3 being oil quenched and W2 being water quenched:

Not true at all... all of them can be oil or water quenched

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/honyaki-mizu-honyaki-and-abura-honyaki.38081/

 

[toddnmd]

Maybe a silly question. But is it definitely white 2 and not white 3? As some members have suggested that all mizuno white honyaki are the latter...

Not a silly question, as the answer from the man himself is that my knife is White #3.

 

[daddy yo yo]

Bought mine in Sakai from the man himself in October 2019. I haven’t even asked because I thought it was W#2...

 

[captaincaed]

So, those who use their Mizuno white steel.honyaki, how do you like them?

 

[daddy yo yo]

So, those who use their Mizuno white steel.honyaki, how do you like them?

My take is that they’re overrated... I keep mine only out of sentimentality...

 

[Midsummer]

I like my Mizuno honyaki’s quite a bit. Nice knives. They are definitely work horses. The edge retention is good. They feel good in the hand.

But I am nothing more than a humble Home cook.

 

[captaincaed]

I have a different honyaki I'm similarly sentimental.about. But it cracks sweet potatoes like a thunder clap.

 

[toddnmd]

MIzuno Tanrenjo said all of their white steel honyakis are made from White #3 and are water quenched.
A number of retailers’ websites say they’re white #2. And I think more used to . . .

 

[RDalman]

Does water additives and temp matter to definition also ? I think you should settle for if it's good it's good.

 

[daddy yo yo]

My take is that they’re overrated... I keep mine only out of sentimentality...

That’s mine, White:

 

[captaincaed]

They don't exactly ghost thru onions do they.

 

[daddy yo yo]

They don't exactly ghost thru onions do they.

No, they don’t. I’d say mine qualifies as a middleweight. It’s no laser, it’s no workhorse...

What’s cool about them is that they have a cool visible hamon, and they’re available pretty much any time.

 

[lemeneid]

Would get a Miz, if it were at least 50/50 ground

 

[daddy yo yo]

Took out mine today:

I can see why someone said it was a workhorse. Compared to a Watanabe or Mazaki KU, it feels more nimble though...

 

[moderncooking]

Maybe a silly question. But is it definitely white 2 and not white 3? As some members have suggested that all mizuno white honyaki are the latter...

Hey @Barry's Knives from the price list they are all white 3. I am thinking about doing a private sale for KKF members. If anyone is interested I will gladly send pricing.

 

[Barry's Knives]

I would certainly be very interested!

 

[Chicagohawkie]

Had interest in Mizuno knives when they were made by the previous generation master and when they were 50 percent less. Should have grabbed a blue 1 sumi when I had the chance.