Nakagawa ginsan?

[Kiru]

Hi guys,

I've been looking around for a 270mm yanagi for home use and the Nakagawa Ginsan 270mm falls into the range I intended to spend, it ticks most of my boxes(look, retailer, price etc), however, I am unsure of the steel, stainless is always a bit meh in terms of sharpening feel, I am not too fuzzy with it but just hope the feel isn't too miserable...

Nakagawa Ginsan Yanagiba 270 / 300 / 330 mm Mirror Polished

Has anyone used or sharpened his line of Ginsan? I've heard good things about the smith but would love to hear from others.

Thanks!

 

[kayman67]

Unfortunately I don't know about this type of blade. Experience might be different.

 

[Kiru]

Unfortunately I don't know about this type of blade. Experience might be different.

Have you tried his other Ginsan knives?

 

[kayman67]

Yes. Very good.
Expect carbon like experience, but can't say much about the actual feel as I never did one like that before.

 

[Kiru]

Yes. Very good.
Expect carbon like experience, but can't say much about the actual feel as I never did one like that before.

Thanks mate, that’s reassuring. I’ll speak to James and see what he says about it!

 

[WiriWiri]

I own a 240 Nakagawa ginsan gyuto from the same line, reportedly sharpened by Morihiro. Sadly (for youi) the OOTB edge was reasonable, I’ve only had it a few months and I’ve not given it any real attention, bar a quick touch up on a Shob

Confident that ginsan can get very sharp pretty easily - that’s been my experience with a similar forged ginsan number from Oul/Yamatsuka - so suspect you’re on safe ground. It’s pretty undemanding as stainless goes— closer to carbon in feel (and deburring) than most

I will say that, although sharp, I reckon the Nakagawa‘s are actually a little thicker BTE than I‘d ideally like, which seems to be the experience of a couple of other posters here too. The Oul ginsans may be worth a compare if you have a chance with that in mind

 

[adam92]

Hi guys,

I've been looking around for a 270mm yanagi for home use and the Nakagawa Ginsan 270mm falls into the range I intended to spend, it ticks most of my boxes(look, retailer, price etc), however, I am unsure of the steel, stainless is always a bit meh in terms of sharpening feel, I am not too fuzzy with it but just hope the feel isn't too miserable...

Nakagawa Ginsan Yanagiba 270 / 300 / 330 mm Mirror Polished

Has anyone used or sharpened his line of Ginsan? I've heard good things about the smith but would love to hear from others.

Thanks!

I have a ginsan yanagiba left handed from Koki, I heard from him is forge by nakagawa before he change the workshop under his name, the steel sharpen very easy, hold the edge for a decent time, compare to his blue two yanagiba, I liked the ginsan better because of rust free, same performance, his ginsan have more high & low spot than his blue steel. But not too difficult to grind away, just with patience.

The one I got is fu rin ka zan, they’re definitely put extra extension on the blade, Choil & spine is perfectly rounded.

If you planning to get from KNS, make sure you get the saya from them, they saya fit the knife very well.

 

[Brian Weekley]

I recently took delivery of a Nakagawa 240mm Ginsan Gyuto. It arrived dull ootb so I put an edge on it. It took a nice edge without a lot of work. I haven’t had a chance to put it to work so can’t comment on the longevity of the edge or anything else. It has a decent f&f and leans more towards the workhorse side of things. It was reasonably priced and should offer good value and performance for the price. Here’s a pic …

 

[Kiru]

I own a 240 Nakagawa ginsan gyuto from the same line, reportedly sharpened by Morihiro. Sadly (for youi) the OOTB edge was reasonable, I’ve only had it a few months and I’ve not given it any real attention, bar a quick touch up on a Shob

Confident that ginsan can get very sharp pretty easily - that’s been my experience with a similar forged ginsan number from Oul/Yamatsuka - so suspect you’re on safe ground. It’s pretty undemanding as stainless goes— closer to carbon in feel (and deburring) than most

I will say that, although sharp, I reckon the Nakagawa‘s are actually a little thicker BTE than I‘d ideally like, which seems to be the experience of a couple of other posters here too. The Oul ginsans may be worth a compare if you have a chance with that in mind

Assuming you touch it up with a Shobu? How does it feel on naturals?
Sharpening feel>edge retention for me, I can always touch it up and I’ll be more inclined to touch it up if the sharpening feel is good.

Man that’s great news, I’ve been wanting to get a ginsan knife because I’ve heard so many good things about the steel, but at the end of the day it depends on the smith.

When you say thicker behind the edge, do you mean not nail flexing at all? I think for yanagi I can sort of get away with it if that’s the case.
thanks!

 

[daveb]

Don't know that maker, do have a ginsan deba from Suisin and ginsan yani from Hide as well as a couple other ginsan knives. Like the steel a lot.

 

[Kiru]

I have a ginsan yanagiba left handed from Koki, I heard from him is forge by nakagawa before he change the workshop under his name, the steel sharpen very easy, hold the edge for a decent time, compare to his blue two yanagiba, I liked the ginsan better because of rust free, same performance, his ginsan have more high & low spot than his blue steel. But not too difficult to grind away, just with patience.

The one I got is fu rin ka zan, they’re definitely put extra extension on the blade, Choil & spine is perfectly rounded.

If you planning to get from KNS, make sure you get the saya from them, they saya fit the knife very well.

Rust free is why I’m thinking to get a ginsan too, have two made by carbon and I don’t think they work too well for the task they do.
i might swing by kns next week to have a look.

 

[jedy617]

Don't know that maker, do have a ginsan deba from Suisin and ginsan yani from Hide as well as a couple other ginsan knives. Like the steel a lot.

You don't know nakagawa??

 

[jedy617]

Hi guys,

I've been looking around for a 270mm yanagi for home use and the Nakagawa Ginsan 270mm falls into the range I intended to spend, it ticks most of my boxes(look, retailer, price etc), however, I am unsure of the steel, stainless is always a bit meh in terms of sharpening feel, I am not too fuzzy with it but just hope the feel isn't too miserable...

Nakagawa Ginsan Yanagiba 270 / 300 / 330 mm Mirror Polished

Has anyone used or sharpened his line of Ginsan? I've heard good things about the smith but would love to hear from others.

Thanks!

Nakagawa is famous for his ginsan knives for what it's worth. Besides Yamatsuka at Sakai Takayuki don't think you can do better with anyone using ginsan. However for me if I'm going stainless I like to go all in and get something with very high edge retention like SG2 or ZDP (much more). If you want a decent "vanilla" ish stainless that's a good all rounder, ginsan fits the bill.

 

[binsed]

I have a ginsan yanagiba left handed from Koki, I heard from him is forge by nakagawa before he change the workshop under his name, the steel sharpen very easy, hold the edge for a decent time, compare to his blue two yanagiba, I liked the ginsan better because of rust free, same performance, his ginsan have more high & low spot than his blue steel. But not too difficult to grind away, just with patience.

The one I got is fu rin ka zan, they’re definitely put extra extension on the blade, Choil & spine is perfectly rounded.

If you planning to get from KNS, make sure you get the saya from them, they saya fit the knife very well.

edit: nvm

 

[adam92]

Oh, the FRKZ ginsan and b2 are nakagawa?

That’s what I was told before, I order blue two yanagiba 5 years ago, Ginsan 1 years ago.

 

[WiriWiri]

Assuming you touch it up with a Shobu? How does it feel on naturals?
Sharpening feel>edge retention for me, I can always touch it up and I’ll be more inclined to touch it up if the sharpening feel is good.

Man that’s great news, I’ve been wanting to get a ginsan knife because I’ve heard so many good things about the steel, but at the end of the day it depends on the smith.

When you say thicker behind the edge, do you mean not nail flexing at all? I think for yanagi I can sort of get away with it if that’s the case.
thanks!

Felt decent enough on a very brief touch up on a Shobu, refreshing quickly - I predict you‘d be pleased enough with how ginsan feels on stones. I’m clearly more of a fan of vanilla than @jedy617 - he’s prob one of those tutti frutI deviants - and value the fact it’s a simpler stainless that’s more of a pleasure to sharpen. Absolute retention isn’t nearly as good as SG2, but not sure that‘s entirely necessary unless you’re ploughing through mountains of meat. I’ll also admit that I find SG2 a bit of a pig to deburr at times too, whereas ginsan’s never caused any probs for me.

Would also agree that a suji doesn’t necessarily need to be super thin too, My last suji purchase was a Heiji after all.

Can definitely concur with the sagelike @Brian Weekley in suggesting that the gyuto is more of workhorse grind - not sure if the suji is similar, but sounds nice in prospect.

 

[binsed]

That’s what I was told before, I order blue two yanagiba 5 years ago, Ginsan 1 years ago.

good to know.

I edited the post because I thought I misunderstood, but I guess not.

 

[daveb]

You don't know nakagawa??

Don't know his knives - have never held or owned one. I like to make such things clear when commenting.

 

[jedy617]

Don't know his knives - have never held or owned one. I like to make such things clear when commenting.

I'm just a little bit in shock because he's extremely prolific and you've been around here for quite some time. Been Shirakis apprentice for over 20 years and took over his workshop last April. He's one of the more well known smiths in Sakai currently. For the past couple years all shiraki honyaki have been made by Nakagawa. Also has lines with Hitohira, Sakai kikumori, and his own lines.

 

[jedy617]

Felt decent enough on a very brief touch up on a Shobu, refreshing quickly - I predict you‘d be pleased enough with how ginsan feels on stones. I’m clearly more of a fan of vanilla than @jedy617 - he’s prob one of those tutti frutI deviants - and value the fact it’s a simpler stainless that’s more of a pleasure to sharpen. Absolute retention isn’t nearly as good as SG2, but not sure that‘s entirely necessary unless you’re ploughing through mountains of meat. I’ll also admit that I find SG2 a bit of a pig to deburr at times too, whereas ginsan’s never caused any probs for me.

Would also agree that a suji doesn’t necessarily need to be super thin too, My last suji purchase was a Heiji after all.

Can definitely concur with the sagelike @Brian Weekley in suggesting that the gyuto is more of workhorse grind - not sure if the suji is similar, but sounds nice in prospect.

I mean the majority of my knives are either in white or blue so wouldn't call my self a "tutti fruti deviant" lol. I just prefer going balls to the walls with carbides if I'm going stainless. I only have 2 stainless knives right now. One SG2 and one ZDP. If I want something that feels like carbon to sharpen I get carbon. If I'm worries about rust I'd just get stainless clad

 

[Kiru]

Felt decent enough on a very brief touch up on a Shobu, refreshing quickly - I predict you‘d be pleased enough with how ginsan feels on stones. I’m clearly more of a fan of vanilla than @jedy617 - he’s prob one of those tutti frutI deviants - and value the fact it’s a simpler stainless that’s more of a pleasure to sharpen. Absolute retention isn’t nearly as good as SG2, but not sure that‘s entirely necessary unless you’re ploughing through mountains of meat. I’ll also admit that I find SG2 a bit of a pig to deburr at times too, whereas ginsan’s never caused any probs for me.

Would also agree that a suji doesn’t necessarily need to be super thin too, My last suji purchase was a Heiji after all.

Can definitely concur with the sagelike @Brian Weekley in suggesting that the gyuto is more of workhorse grind - not sure if the suji is similar, but sounds nice in prospect.

That’s great mate, I’ve got a shobu as well that I reckon would be a good fit for a yanagi, I sharpened one of my yanagi up to 8k synthetics yesterday and I found the edge still toothy, way toothier than 8k on double bevels(I only use anything over 5k for cosmetic purpose, found them bit useless with edge).
I’m more of a vanilla user as well, never think of anything above sg2.

 

[Kiru]

I mean the majority of my knives are either in white or blue so wouldn't call my self a "tutti fruti deviant" lol. I just prefer going balls to the walls with carbides if I'm going stainless. I only have 2 stainless knives right now. One SG2 and one ZDP. If I want something that feels like carbon to sharpen I get carbon. If I'm worries about rust I'd just get stainless clad

How do you find the sharpening feel on the ZDP? Never sharpened one in my life… is it miserable or still feels okay?

 

[jedy617]

How do you find the sharpening feel on the ZDP? Never sharpened one in my life… is it miserable or still feels okay?

Not bad at all with decent stones. ZDP is all chromium carbides which are on the softer end as far as carbides go. Funny enough ZDP was designed as a cutlery steel to be sharpened up fine on aluminum oxide whetstones. Definitely takes a bit of time but felt absolutely fine on my choseras. Maybe even better than my SG2. Vanadium carbides are where you get into trouble. And what's nice is if you are a casual user like me and have lots of knives you sharpen zdp once or twice a year max lol

 

[Jason183]

I'm just a little bit in shock because he's extremely prolific and you've been around here for quite some time. Been Shirakis apprentice for over 20 years and took over his workshop last April. He's one of the more well known smiths in Sakai currently. For the past couple years all shiraki honyaki have been made by Nakagawa. Also has lines with Hitohira, Sakai kikumori, and his own lines.

I was wondering is Shiraki the same Shiraki who passed on to Murray Carter as next generation knife maker?

 

[jedy617]

I was wondering is Shiraki the same Shiraki who passed on to Murray Carter as next generation knife maker?

No. Carter practiced under Yasuyuki Sakemoto, however Carter did do a collaboration with shiraki before and called shiraki one of, if not the best Smith in Japan. There are countless threads on shiraki on this forum.

 

[Kiru]

Not bad at all with decent stones. ZDP is all chromium carbides which are on the softer end as far as carbides go. Funny enough ZDP was designed as a cutlery steel to be sharpened up fine on aluminum oxide whetstones. Definitely takes a bit of time but felt absolutely fine on my choseras. Maybe even better than my SG2. Vanadium carbides are where you get into trouble. And what's nice is if you are a casual user like me and have lots of knives you sharpen zdp once or twice a year max lol

Do you touch it up at all? Sharpen once or twice a year is quite impressive assuming you use at least twice a week(that’s what causal for me is)

 

[jedy617]

Do you touch it up at all? Sharpen once or twice a year is quite impressive assuming you use at least twice a week(that’s what causal for me is)

I think you missed the part about the lots of knives haha. I have 10+ gyuto so if I cook 3 times a week or so and switch knives every week....yeah ZDP lasts that long. Nope I don't touch it up at all. ZDP works best with a lower grit aggressive edge. I leave it at about 3k. According to CATRA testing (scientific edge retention tests) ZDP holds an edge 2.2x longer than aogami super so quite a lot considering people talk about how aogami super has really good edge retention.

 

[Jason183]

I think you missed the part about the lots of knives haha. I have 10+ gyuto so if I cook 3 times a week or so and switch knives every week....yeah ZDP lasts that long. Nope I don't touch it up at all. ZDP works best with a lower grit aggressive edge. I leave it at about 3k. According to CATRA testing (scientific edge retention tests) ZDP holds an edge 2.2x longer than aogami super so quite a lot considering people talk about how aogami super has really good edge retention.

So assuming if you use your ZDP everyday, you’re going to sharpen it once or twice every 2 weeks. Hmmmm
I had a AS gyuto before, used it everyday and have to resharpen every week, so if ZDP sharpens twice a week, then that’ll make sense.

 

[jedy617]

So assuming if you use your ZDP everyday, you’re going to sharpen it once or twice every 2 weeks. Hmmmm
I had a AS gyuto before, used it everyday and have to resharpen every week, so if ZDP sharpens twice a week, then that’ll make sense.

What AS gyuto if I may ask? Seems quite soft to need a full sharpen every week. I'd guess it would last a couple weeks even using every day.

 

[Jason183]

What AS gyuto if I may ask? Seems quite soft to need a full sharpen every week. I'd guess it would last a couple weeks even using every day.

It was Kanehiro AS(63HRC) from takefu, sold it long times ago, I also don’t touch up between sharpening back then. But now I’m getting into the habit of touching up between each sharpening, so if I do it back then, it would of probably last longer.