Nan(chosera) pro 2000

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Cloudsmoker said:
Just picked up a NP 2000, mostly because I start with the NP 800 and wanted something in between before polishing on a JNat. It was really”sandy” for the first couple days, leaving more grit than slurry. Finally, that seems to be wearing off and is becoming an enjoyable atone. Hmmm? Curious in Dallas.
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Lots of stones need a good lapping to remove the top layer before they settle in.
 
Luftmensch said:
Rather than the 2K, i think the 8K would be a more 'fun' usage of your money. Note that the stone we are talking about is not a Chosera or Pro. Although it is not part of the Chosera line-up, it is Chosera-like. It is called Naniwa 'Junpaku' or 'Snow White'. Try those search terms.... If you are desperate for that stone... you could also try look in good carpentry stores.
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The 'Snow-white' is indeed a spectacular stone, adding bite to refinement, even when the blade got previously overly polished and lost bite.
But the small benefit it offers with carbons after the NP3k or directly after the 800 is very expensive. Small, very interesting improvement at high costs.
Just one warning: I don't know about the NP5k, but found the Chosera 5k most disappointing. Softer than I am used to, but above all: total absence of tactile feedback. Quite frustrating to have to guess whether a burr is gone or not, or whether you've reached the very edge. With a NP3k or the 'Snow-white' you feel, hear and often see it.
Would be glad to hear about members' experience with the new NP5k.
 
i have sealed my naniwa pros. my thinking is: less sides open to leach out the magnesia binder = less chance of cracking. because the magnesia will definitely leach out if it can.
 
Benuser said:
But the small benefit it offers with carbons after the NP3k or directly after the 800 is very expensive. Small, very interesting improvement at high costs.
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True! One of the reasons I dont think higher grits are necessary (unless you want to have fun 😈)

In some ways the Snow White is good value though... It is a little bit cheaper then the Chosera 5k and a helluva lot cheaper than the ridiculous Chosera 10K.


Benuser said:
I don't know about the NP5k, but found the Chosera 5k most disappointing. Softer than I am used to, but above all: total absence of tactile feedback.
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Thanks for that. That is disappointing to hear!



kayman67 said:
Hm. Your experience points me towards Naniwa Super Stone 5000 rather than Professional 5000.
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Hmmm... the Superstones are even softer and have a smoother feedback with more drag/friction. They arent terrible stones... I use them for razors - but I do strongly prefer Chosera for kitchen knives.

I compared Super stones and Chosera in this post. You may be interested? After re-reading it, I feel it still represents my thoughts. Although... it can be hard to describe sensations! I would like to add a little clarification about the Snow White though. While I mention that you can still keep cutting when there is swarf on the surface, i didnt mention that you can help prevent clogging by maintaining fresh water on the stone. If you let the slurry get too thick, it starts to clog. When it does, you can often rub the swarf off with your fingers. While it is similar to the Choseras... I pretty much dont have to think about clogging with the Chosera 3K and below. With the Snow White, it is something I find I have to actively manage just that little bit more.

I dont know how similar this is to the Chosera 5K (@Benuser ?) and 10K? It would not surprise me if it is just an inevitable consequence of higher grit stones...
 
@Luftmensch Haven't seen that clogging with other stones, but haven't much to compare with in those high grits. Haven't noticed any similar thing with the Chosera 5k.
What you describe as clogging might explain the stickyness of the mud on the blade once finished. You can't just rinse it away. I go with my nail along the bevels. Only experienced the same with a very soft Coticule — but with that one I raise mud with saliva which gets only little by little diluted with water.
Would the Junpaku contain some clay?
 
Got my Junpaku years ago here on B/S/T and paid only $70 all inclusive for a 2.5cm almost new one, when the € was at its top and my country's customs laxist.
Just verified today's prices: NP5k around €140(!), Junpaku €110, the Junpaku being 2cm thick.
Quite sure I won't give the 5k a second chance.
 
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Hi all,
I lapped my new Nan/pro2k stone and man that thing is hard! I did my bulk lapping with a diamond plate and finished it on 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper.Used it once is definitely slick and quiet as far a feedback. I hate to make assumptions this early on, but first impressions it's not all that fast, and it's more like a 3k finish, and that's good, if it's fast. I maybe wrong but it didn't seem fast on the cheap chinese made gold Dollar razor, meaning it didn't seem to bite into the steel much.. I need to keep using it, but first impressions was not all that great, but I guess I need to learn the stone. Before I bought this Nan pro a buddy of mine tried to to me to get a Shapton Glass 2k, he said it was finer and faster than the Shapton pro 2k. I dunno??
 
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Benuser said:
Got my Junpaku years ago here on B/S/T and paid only $70 all inclusive for a 2.5cm almost new one, when the € was at its top and my country's customs laxist.
Just verified today's prices: NP5k around €140(!), Junpaku €110, the Junpaku being 2cm thick.
Quite sure I won't give the 5k a second chance.
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If you ever consider using a Chosera like 5k, maybe you might be able to find a cheaper Kramer 5k stone.
 
Mike Shults said:
Hi all,
I lapped my new Nan/pro2k stone and man that thing is hard! I did my bulk lapping with a diamond plate and finished it on 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper.Used it once is definitely slick and quiet as far a feedback. I hate to make assumptions this early on, but first impressions it's not all that fast, and it's more like a 3k finish, and that's good, if it's fast. I maybe wrong but it didn't seem fast on the cheap chinese made gold Dollar razor, meaning it didn't seem to bite into the steel much.. I need to keep using it, but first impressions was not all that great, but I guess I need to learn the stone. Before I bought this Nan pro a buddy of mine tried to to me to get a Shapton Glass 2k, he said it was finer and faster than the Shapton pro 2k. I dunno??
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Shapton Pro 2000 is haze(ish), Glass 2000 gets a bit brighter (and I remember that I liked the edge a bit more, I still have that stone), while Naniwa Professional 2000 gets even brighter. Glass did not seem finer on anything I have ever tried, though. I think that Naniwa won't work very well with an aggressive approach. Also, there is the chance of having a glazed surface while lapping. Maybe use a coarse dressing stone to resurface the stone and test it again.
 
kayman67 said:
Shapton Pro 2000 is haze(ish), Glass 2000 gets a bit brighter (and I remember that I liked the edge a bit more, I still have that stone), while Naniwa Professional 2000 gets even brighter. Glass did not seem finer on anything I have ever tried, though. I think that Naniwa won't work very well with an aggressive approach. Also, there is the chance of having a glazed surface while lapping. Maybe use a coarse dressing stone to resurface the stone and test it again.
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What grits do you recommend I use to surface finish/dress the surface?

I finished with a piece of 400 grit sandpaper. I know 'hard' stones are particularly on how you lap them, because they don't settle in like a softer stone that releases abrasive.
 
Mike Shults said:
What grits do you recommend I use to surface finish/dress the surface?

I finished with a piece of 400 grit sandpaper. I know 'hard' stones are particularly on how you lap them, because they don't settle in like a softer stone that releases abrasive.
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I think you’re right in your assessment. It finished around 3k and is as fast as that. Compared to Jnats it’s like warp speed but compares it to a shapton 2k and it’s slower.
 
I use an Atoma 140 with it and use the mud. No need for refining. The relatively rough surface makes it much faster. Sandpaper releases its own particles so the mud can't be used and needs rinsing.
I do the same with the 8k Junpaku, without any problem.
 
Yeah I lapped with Atoma 600 and dressed with 400 wet/dry. The Atoma isn't fully broken in yet, but I guess the plate equals to 220 grit/USA. On hard stones they can act like files if one finishes roughly. On softer stones it's not so big of a deal. With the pressure I am using, when sharpening razors, it's way way less than knife pressure, so the stone would stay rough for a bit, but with knife sharpening pressure a hard stone would settle in quicker.

This stone takes a while to dry , for sure.. I can tell they are finicky.. They finish nice, but not fast even on simple carbon steel thin razors. I bought it an I am stuck 😄.. Now I own two 2k's.. IMO - the Shapton pro 2k, is 'almost' twice as fast, as this one.. This Nan/pro does leave a straighter more refined apex under my Belemo 10x loupe.
Yeah my buddy told me before I even bought the Shapton pro 2k , just buy the Shapton glass 2k it's finer and faster than the SP2k. I guess everyone is different when it comes to observing scratch patterns. One can't chase scratch patterns with a ultra thin razor at such an acute bevel angle, and it's very thin behind the bevel too. Meaning if one tried to get a 'scratchless bevel' and remove 'most of the previous stria, then he or she would cause the apex to crumble. Heavy pressure on a hollow ground razor is equal to drawing a dark pencil mark on paper, and erasing it. Some guys talk about weight of the blade, I may be wrong but I disagree with weight of the blade because when you stop undercutting, meaning if the water and swarf isn't riding up over the blade then you are not hitting the very tip of the apex, JMO ..
 
Hi all,
Is there a place on this forum to were you can buy and sell? Unfortunately -
I just not really feeling this Nan/pro2k.. I am going to keep using it for maybe a little bit just to give it the benefit of the doubt..
 
Just plain carbon steel.. But pressure on a hollow ground razor is different from knife sharpening pressure.. Way less than half.
 
Checkpure said:
On what steel? Takes two to four passes on carbons for me to raise a bur. 4-6 on sld
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I am not counting the stone out yet.. The scratches are way less in depth compared to the Shapton Pro 2k, although the SP is a brighter finish, but it still scratches deeper, than the NAn pro, it leaves a more natural hazy finish if that makes sense, kinda like a natural stone in a way, like a Kasumi finish. No signs of cracks yet, I will give it a fare shake before I draw out any conclusions. . I use a Nan/brown biscuit 600 grit to deglaze/condition and keep fresh grit readily available on the surface between lappings, I lap my bevel setters about every 4 razors and on my 4khc 6khc 8khc and Nan 12k every dozen razors, although I do dress and clean the surfaces of these in-between lappings also.

---Mike
 
Mike Shults said:
I am not counting the stone out yet.. The scratches are way less in depth compared to the Shapton Pro 2k, although the SP is a brighter finish, but it still scratches deeper, than the NAn pro, it leaves a more natural hazy finish if that makes sense, kinda like a natural stone in a way, like a Kasumi finish. No signs of cracks yet, I will give it a fare shake before I draw out any conclusions. . I use a Nan/brown biscuit 600 grit to deglaze/condition and keep fresh grit readily available on the surface between lappings, I lap my bevel setters about every 4 razors and on my 4khc 6khc 8khc and Nan 12k every dozen razors, although I do dress and clean the surfaces of these in-between lappings also.

---Mike
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Have a 16k shapton glass on the way to try out with my kamisori. Been using a 12k pro and Jnat asagi. The asagi is huge and won’t travel well.
 
Checkpure said:
Have a 16k shapton glass on the way to try out with my kamisori. Been using a 12k pro and Jnat asagi. The asagi is huge and won’t travel well.
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Nice!! I also have a level 5+ asaigi , and also a Kiita a deep layer one it's about 5++, I just received it a friend gave it to me, I don't know if he is on this forum but in the razor forums he goes by Steve56, he is a knowledgeable guy with these stones.. My Jnats progression is I typically hone with synths up to 4k, after that I do a round of diamond slurry with a well worn 600 diamond and then move to asano komo nagura, then tomo, and last about 30 water clear water strokes, thankful my stones either of my Jnats do not scratch or skip on clear water strokes.i really like a good flax linen, imo it really bumps up the polish and keenness on the kasumi finish.. a lot of folks don't like the Kasumi finish, but I think it's beautiful, and don't let that bead blasted finish fool you, lol, IMO, it will compete or sometimes blow a synthetic shaving edge out of the water, you get 'Sharp' and 'smooth' with a razor grade Jnat..


Cheers,

Mike
 
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