Nan(chosera) pro 2000

[Mike Shults]

I should have added, that 'if' I decide to seal (all the sides) I will be sealing with the same epoxy (Devcon 2 ton) I use to attach the glass to the bottom of the stone. It's water proof definitely, but it dries semi-hard, so that may or may not be good. I think it would be good because it will bind everything up good and it will keep the stone from expanding too much during wet and dry cycles.

 

[VICTOR J CREAZZI]

You might hold off on the glass until the stone gets thin. I have marble tile on my 8k and 12k 1cm super stones, but I don't intend to mount my Chosera/Pro stones until they get thin enough that I'm worried about breaking them. They are much more dimensionally stable than the 1 cm super stones.

 

[Mike Shults]

You might hold off on the glass until the stone gets thin. I have marble tile on my 8k and 10k 1cm super stones, but I don't intend to mount my Chosera/Pro stones until they get thin enough that I'm worried about breaking them. They are much more dimensionally stable than the 1 cm super stones.

Hey Victor!
Thanks for the help!

 

[kayman67]

All sealed stones I have behaved better, so much so that eventually I've done most of them.

 

[Benuser]

All sealed stones I have behaved better, so much so that eventually I've done most of them.

Magnesia-bound amongst them?

 

[kayman67]

Yes, about 5-6.

 

[Benuser]

Yes, about 5-6.

Thanks!

 

[Mike Shults]

All sealed stones I have behaved better, so much so that eventually I've done most of them.

Hi ,
What are your thoughts on using a 2 part epoxy to seal the sides?

 

[kayman67]

I use it everywhere. But, if you use the fast ones, they won't exactly bond with the stone. Fine for porous low grit ones, as you don't want to get into the stone too deep, not for the others.
If you use slow curing mixture, make sure you apply right before it heats up. If it's too liquid and gets all over, might be a super hard job to remove completely. Also apply in small amounts, so keep track of weight as needed.

 

[Mike Shults]

I use it everywhere. But, if you use the fast ones, they won't exactly bond with the stone. Fine for porous low grit ones, as you don't want to get into the stone too deep, not for the others.
If you use slow curing mixture, make sure you apply right before it heats up. If it's too liquid and gets all over, might be a super hard job to remove completely. Also apply in small amounts, so keep track of weight as needed.

I have a little experience with the Devcon 2 ton epoxy (30 minutes) cure. I have epoxied quite a few pieces of glass on the bottoms of stones to stabilize them, in reality you only have about 12-14 minutes working time, I usually add 3-4 drops of Denatured alcohol to increase working time.

I have never sealed a stone with epoxy though.. What I am concerned about is, well epoxy dries hard, so I don't know if that will be bad or good for the stone, meaning I assume the stone expands when wet.. Anyways that's my only concern. So I dunno??

 

[kayman67]

I imagine that any ill effects would have manifested themselves already after so long.

 

[Luftmensch]

@Mike Shults,

I'll echo some of the comments said here. Like @inferno says... if you want to remove all scratches from your bevel setting stone, you have to spend more time on the next stone. A new stone wont fix that! A stone that leaves shallower scratches may help... but you still have to spend enough time on the following grit.

That said, in my experience Shapton glass are scratchier than Chosera (chosera seems to break down into finer particles).


I have similar experience @branwell:

I have the Chosera 400, 800 and had a 3K which I traded for a Naniwa Pro 2k. Poor little buggers haven't had an easy life with me. They get used in my sharpening side business so get used a lot and also travel around in the back of my car. They have seen the heat of Virginia summers and the cold of up state NY winters. No special water, no special drying. All I do is not soak them. I should add that I took a heat gun to the Chosara 400 and 800 to get the basses off to make them more compact, so lots of heat expansion and prying force. So far, no issues.

From what I've heard, the cracking issue is more frequent with the 10K and 5K and reduce as the grits go down but given how I treat stones, I think as long as you don't soak them, cracking is the exception to the rule.

I have the 400, 1000, 3000. Absolutely zero issues. Literally splash and go - I just cover the surface with water and get going. When I am done I rinse the mud off and stand the stones up on their end to air dry. No cracking.

I have also read the problems are more associated with the 5k and 10K. I do have a Naniwa Snow White (Chosera-like) which is crazing. Even though it is crazing, it does not affect honing. The crazing also appears skin deep. If I spend enough time laping, the crazing disappears (only to reappear a month later or so...)

I would not bother sealing the stones if you are worried about cracking/crazing. Whether or not it provides other benefits

All sealed stones I have behaved better, so much so that eventually I've done most of them.

@kayman67, I'd be interested to hear more about this. How does their behaviour improve?

 

[kayman67]

No shifting with razors. Less water with/after soaking. But other things I like as well. Don't really care about hitting them anymore (that's on me), don't really care when they get thin, 99% usable. Cracks stopped developing after (I believe that cracking is an environmental issue to start with, I have mixed experiences with this, even Shapton did the same in some locations). I even saved completely split stones. They work seamlessly now for more than a year.
Overall, less maintenance and keeping them in that sweet spot. Haven't seen anything bad happening. I use very slow curing epoxy. The biggest caveat is that with porous stones, this needs to be applied at the right time or you get a new type of stone.

 

[Bart.s]

I've also have no problems with mine, have the 400, 800 and 3000. I never soak them and always clean them with the Naniwa dressing stone. I towel dry them and let them dry on an angle to dry them evenly.

At first I didn't like them, but the more I use them the more I love them. As a side question, is it worth having the 2000 if you already have the 3000, or is the difference negligible?

 

[Benuser]

As a side question, is it worth having the 2000 if you already have the 3000, or is the difference negligible?

The new Naniwa Pro 2k and 3k are very close, more than with the former Chosera. You may consider the Shapton Pro 2k instead, for example as a last stone with some stainless, where refining up to 4k (as with the NP3k) might be counterproductive.

 

[Checkpure]

I've also have no problems with mine, have the 400, 800 and 3000. I never soak them and always clean them with the Naniwa dressing stone. I towel dry them and let them dry on an angle to dry them evenly.

At first I didn't like them, but the more I use them the more I love them. As a side question, is it worth having the 2000 if you already have the 3000, or is the difference negligible?

Depends on if you're finishing on the 3000 or not. I'd rather finish on the 3000 vs the 2000 for carbons. However I really prefer the snow white 8k over the 3k for finishing and I the jump from 2k - 8k is really nice. The 3000 is nice to have but not necessary for me.

 

[Bart.s]

The new Naniwa Pro 2k and 3k are very close, more than with the former Chosera. You may consider the Shapton Pro 2k instead, for example as a last stone with some stainless, where refining up to 4k (as with the NP3k) might be counterproductive.

Depends on if you're finishing on the 3000 or not. I'd rather finish on the 3000 vs the 2000 for carbons. However I really prefer the snow white 8k over the 3k for finishing and I the jump from 2k - 8k is really nice. The 3000 is nice to have but not necessary for me.

Yes, the NP3000 is the last stone in my progression. I thought perhaps to use the NP2000 as a faster touch up stone before the 3000, or as a finisher for knives with lower HRC than don't really benefit from a NP3000 edge. In that context, worth having?

 

[Checkpure]

Yes, the NP3000 is the last stone in my progression. I thought perhaps to use the NP2000 as a faster touch up stone before the 3000, or as a finisher for knives with lower HRC than don't really benefit from a NP3000 edge. In that context, worth having?

Probably not but that has never stopped us has it? The np2k is my fav stone to use, something about the feel. Sell the 3k get a 2k and 8k

 

[Bart.s]

Probably not but that has never stopped us has it? The np2k is my fav stone to use, something about the feel. Sell the 3k get a 2k and 8k

No it hasn't . I'm in this hobby for about 2 years now and the NP's are my third set of stones, so the 'needing' station has passed and it's more what can I justify

 

[Checkpure]

No it hasn't . I'm in this hobby for about 2 years now and the NP's are my third set of stones, so the 'needing' station has passed and it's more what can I justify

get em! The snow white 8k is where its at IMO. fits right in with your other stones and leaves a wild edge.

 

[kayman67]

I've also have no problems with mine, have the 400, 800 and 3000. I never soak them and always clean them with the Naniwa dressing stone. I towel dry them and let them dry on an angle to dry them evenly.

At first I didn't like them, but the more I use them the more I love them. As a side question, is it worth having the 2000 if you already have the 3000, or is the difference negligible?

Only if you look at things like this.
2000 is 2000, very fast, prone to some polish up to quite bright polish with some alloys.
3000 is more like 4000.
5000 is more like something above that.
8000 Snow white is really close to the 10k Chosera, so that takes care of business for far less money, but still has its own issues with surface webbing.
In my experience you never use all of them. If you have 3 and 8k, you just skip 2 and 5. If you use the 2k, no real need to use 3k and most of the time same goes for 5k (not always).
There are also a few variations of 4k stones that are pretty much Chosera like stones (I had some that even had the exact same stamp). I'm not sure where to find these. I just stumbled upon them. Searching Japanese pages is a huge pain.

 

[branwell]

As a side question, is it worth having the 2000 if you already have the 3000, or is the difference negligible?

I'm not a fan of the 3K. IMO it's too high for German stainless and isn't high enough to take advantage of what makes good carbon and stainless awesome.

2K stones are amazing. They leave awesome edges on German stainless and work great as progression stones for steels that work well at high grits.

Love 4K. Leave super aggressive and reasonably keen edges on carbons and good stainless.

5K / 6K stones are milk toast. Kind of this middle ground that isn't special in any regard. Not really that aggressive and not really that keen.

8K stones are getting into this eye poping sharp territory for steels that can manage it while still retaining some aggression ( assuming you have an 8K stone that leaves aggressive edges. I'm looking at you King 8K )

 

[Bart.s]

If I would buy the NP2k it would it would indeed be as a finisher for german stainless. I sharpen some knives for friends and family that only have german stainless. For now, I always finish them on the NP800, so I guess the NP2k will have it's place.

While I like the edge from the NP3000 on my own knifes and I've always been let to believe that the NP3k would be plenty for most kitchen tasks, now I'm temped to try a 8k. The King 8k looks like a cheap option to try it, as I haven't seen a Naniwa 8k anywhere here in Europe. Thanks for the advice .

 

[Benuser]

If I would buy the NP2k it would it would indeed be as a finisher for german stainless. I sharpen some knives for friends and family that only have german stainless. For now, I always finish them on the NP800, so I guess the NP2k will have it's place.

While I like the edge from the NP3000 on my own knifes and I've always been let to believe that the NP3k would be plenty for most kitchen tasks, now I'm temped to try a 8k. The King 8k looks like a cheap option to try it, as I haven't seen a Naniwa 8k anywhere here in Europe. Thanks for the advice .

I don't think Krupp's 4116 will benefit from going up to the NP2k. It's end result is 3k-ish. Edge stability will suffer from any further refinement, as it weakens the already soft matrix while the carbides remain intact and are likely to break out.
I normally use 400 or 500 NP with those soft stainless and end by very light edge leading 'stropping' and deburring on the NP800, so no full sharpening. Perhaps a few last deburring strokes on the NP2k, but certainly nothing more.

 

[Bart.s]

I don't think Krupp's 4116 will benefit from going up to the NP2k. It's end result is 3k-ish. Edge stability will suffer from any further refinement, as it weakens the already soft matrix while the carbides remain intact and are likely to break out.
I normally use 400 or 500 NP with those soft stainless and end by very light edge leading 'stropping' and deburring on the NP800, so no full sharpening. Perhaps a few last deburring strokes on the NP2k, but certainly nothing more.

This is my usual progression also for the more cheaper german knives. But do you also use this progression for more premium german knives, Wüsthof Ikon for example? I thought those might benefit from a NP2k.

 

[Benuser]

This is my usual progression also for the more cheaper german knives. But do you also use this progression for more premium german knives, Wüsthof Ikon for example? I thought those might benefit from a NP2k.

What I described was how I handle the finest ones amongst the Krupp's 4116. The Victorinox doesn't see a NP800 and gets deburred with the green side of a kitchen pad.

 

[Bart.s]

What I described was how I handle the finest ones amongst the Krupp's 4116. The Victorinox doesn't see a NP800 and gets deburred with the green side of a kitchen pad.

I didn't knew Krupp 4116 steel, so I googled it. Came across some $20 knives. Did some more searching and found out that Wüsthofs X50CrMoV15 basically is Krupp 4116 . Sorry, didn't know that. Anyway, thanks for the advice.

 

[kayman67]

It's not really that simple. Heat treatment and other things matter a lot. You can't judge all the knives as being the same based on generic alloy type.
As far as how much such an alloy would benefit from a proper sharpening, has been talked about just too many times. They benefit even from 6k from example or whatever higher grit, but, as always, the question is if it's worth the effort to get them there or just put another working edge fast and keep cutting.

 

[Luftmensch]

If I would buy the NP2k it would it would indeed be as a finisher for german stainless. I sharpen some knives for friends and family that only have german stainless. For now, I always finish them on the NP800, so I guess the NP2k will have it's place.

I can't help you on the finisher for German stainless... I haven't sharpened one of them for years But my gut says the 2000 and 3000 are so close, it wouldn't be a huge value add to your stone arsenal. Stropping might be a cheaper and more effective method for achieving what you need there??

I thought perhaps to use the NP2000 as a faster touch up stone before the 3000

On the one hand yes! On the other hand... no. It would be faster than your 3000 but slower than your 800. Rather than the 2000, experiment with lighter pressure on your 800. Maybe even use the surface dry so that it glazes and acts finer. Of course, you can add the 2000... but that seems like a low return on investment type proposition to me!!

While I like the edge from the NP3000 on my own knifes and I've always been let to believe that the NP3k would be plenty for most kitchen tasks, now I'm temped to try a 8k. The King 8k looks like a cheap option to try it, as I haven't seen a Naniwa 8k anywhere here in Europe. Thanks for the advice .

My opinion on this remains unchanged... 3000 is a good grit to finish on for general use. Of course you can go higher! Decent steel will allow you to do that. Chasing that dragon can be fun and it may make you a better sharpener. But it isnt necessary. The amount of utility you get out of more refined edges depends on what you are doing and your cutting technique. If you take your edge up to 20K... great... but if you are a notorious board banger, those benefits won't last long.

Rather than the 2K, i think the 8K would be a more 'fun' usage of your money. Note that the stone we are talking about is not a Chosera or Pro. Although it is not part of the Chosera line-up, it is Chosera-like. It is called Naniwa 'Junpaku' or 'Snow White'. Try those search terms.... If you are desperate for that stone... you could also try look in good carpentry stores.

 

[Cloudsmoker]

Just picked up a NP 2000, mostly because I start with the NP 800 and wanted something in between before polishing on a JNat. It was really”sandy” for the first couple days, leaving more grit than slurry. Finally, that seems to be wearing off and is becoming an enjoyable atone. Hmmm? Curious in Dallas.