mpier
Senior Member
If you go to the Japanese web sites like the ones you see on e-bay for the original chosera the grit number has an SS in front of it and yes I guess I should have used the NP instead so we are both right
Naniwa Pro 1000, Shapton Glass 1000 or Naniwa Pro 800
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I'm pretty sure Amazon also tend to keep the SS prefix for the Chosera.
mpier
Senior Member
Just to clarify the SS is designation for that series in the model number, the supers stones are S or S2 the new chosera is P and so on
mpier
Senior Member
mpier
Senior Member
Ok that pic sucks but printed on the end of the box SS3000
VICTOR J CREAZZI
Senior Member
I like the Chosera 5k for razors. Not sure if it's worth the extra $ over the 5kSS though.
I don’t doubt you that it says SS on the box. It’s just that the established acronym, at least on KKF, for SS when talking about Naniwa refers to SuperStone.
Its always good to clear things up to reduce any confusion.
Really sorry if this caused you any inconvenience.
Its always good to clear things up to reduce any confusion.
Really sorry if this caused you any inconvenience.
mpier
Senior Member
No I’m just old and crusty no big deal I’ll get it right someday lol
It really depends on what's expected. For me, Chosera 800 is just better than Shapton Pro 1000, as it does perform in all areas and requires pretty much no real work after.
Chosera 3000 and 5000 should be rather similar in use, though, just a different grit rating. In razor world, the 5000 is considered fine enough as last stone before the final finisher, whatever that might be, by most people.
At least usuba can be taken to really high grits. But it's not, let's say, mandatory. If you do use it as intended, some 8-10k will be a nice finish. I had many 8k stones, but lately I'm using Naniwa Sharpening Stone 10k more than anything else.
For gyuto, depends on usage again, alloys. Any fine structures would benefit from 5-6k usually, though Chosera 3k is just fine as well.
Chosera 3000 and 5000 should be rather similar in use, though, just a different grit rating. In razor world, the 5000 is considered fine enough as last stone before the final finisher, whatever that might be, by most people.
At least usuba can be taken to really high grits. But it's not, let's say, mandatory. If you do use it as intended, some 8-10k will be a nice finish. I had many 8k stones, but lately I'm using Naniwa Sharpening Stone 10k more than anything else.
For gyuto, depends on usage again, alloys. Any fine structures would benefit from 5-6k usually, though Chosera 3k is just fine as well.
I also do prefer NP800 to SP1K. My previous comment was aiming to say that I started to appreciate the SP1K more since I have the NP800. Good straightforward alternative. I shouldn’t have used the words « like better ». I didn’t like the SP1K much when I only had it as a med (-coarse). NP800 and SP2K have brought perspective to what SP1K does so well though. In the end however the NP800 is a much more powerful stone.
so what would you recommend for sharpening a Deba/Usuba/Gyuto after a Naniwa pro 800 and Naniwa Pro 3000 ?
Any high-grit stone of your choice. Your gyuto is of V1, which is not a million miles away from Blue steel, so you can likely sharpen it to whatever level you like. A lot of it depends what you are looking to do, how you plan on using the gyuto, whether you want any particular finish on those single-bevel knives, whether you want soaking or splash-and-go stones, and so on.
If you want to polish those single-bevel knives into mirrors, you might follow it up with your Naniwa Super 5k (which is known for polishing) and then the Naniwa Super 10k (q.v. Kayman's recommendation).
If you want a kasumi finish, the forum favorite seems to be the Kitayama 8k, but I'd suspect that alternatives exist there as well.
Or if you expect most of your extra-high-grit sharpening to be on basic carbon-steels (e.g. White, Blue, etc.), you might even jump into the natural-stones rabbit-hole (e.g. JKI's Oouchi is 6-8k grit). Or a stone that's specialized for carbon-steels, e.g. the Shapton HC Glass 8k.
Or you might seek yet something else.
There are many alternatives, and as another user already mentioned, sharpening above 3k-5k often isn't really a requirement.
Disclosure: I personally go straight from Naniwa Pro 3k to Naniwa Fuji 8k for usuba, yanagiba, and a white-1 gyuto. Is that the right thing to do? I don't yet have enough experience with it to tell.
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I like to go from the Naniwa Pro 3k to Naniwa Junpaku 8k AKA 'Snow-white' with my carbon gyutos. No real need, but for fun. Delivers a nice bite.
inferno
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) <*))))><
if you want some contrast between the cladding and the edge steel - cerax 8k.
if you just want to sharpen, maybe glass 6 or 8k or pro8k. the pro 8k is really good imo.
Thank you so much. By going to say 6k, does it make your Deba and Usuba more fragile ? just worried that it will end up being more brittle...thanks
This is more myth than truth. Finer grits actually will close the edge, making is more resilient.
Keep in mind that Usuba is a special knife with special cutting techniques. But that's something different.
Keep in mind that Usuba is a special knife with special cutting techniques. But that's something different.
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Couldn't agree more.
There must be confusion with some soft stainless that don't benefit from a high polish, like the German 4116, where edge instability occurs because of chromium carbides breaking out of the weak matrix. Edge instability is different from brittleness, except for Globals, where chipping is common.
But this has nothing to do with high polishing carbon steel.
True, but not always.
These recommendations are kinda scary. It will make sense in a bit, because I just watched this:
So algorithms work quite well. Not scary sharp, just scary.
Okay, so it wasn't really a surprise for me since it's not the first time I've seen something similar or read something similar (or even did something similar). Yeah, this happens to be pocket knives related, that's how the Internet works.
Thus, the edge needs not to only be from a certain alloy, but in a certain way for problems to occur.
And I've also encountered many time the same idea about not being worth it because takes so much effort. And I've said so myself a few times. But as a principle, the plus is definitely there and can be achieved consistently. The alloy itself won't be the only limit.
As a side note, I've seen this a lot in relationship to steeling as well (that's a lot more damaging on so many levels), in the opposite direction.
Anyway, my idea was in relation to usuba mainly, as the edge is quite delicate and needs to be as closed as possible in my experience, if board contact exists and also any technique will benefit if it's as sharp as possible.
These recommendations are kinda scary. It will make sense in a bit, because I just watched this:
So algorithms work quite well. Not scary sharp, just scary.
Okay, so it wasn't really a surprise for me since it's not the first time I've seen something similar or read something similar (or even did something similar). Yeah, this happens to be pocket knives related, that's how the Internet works.
Thus, the edge needs not to only be from a certain alloy, but in a certain way for problems to occur.
And I've also encountered many time the same idea about not being worth it because takes so much effort. And I've said so myself a few times. But as a principle, the plus is definitely there and can be achieved consistently. The alloy itself won't be the only limit.
As a side note, I've seen this a lot in relationship to steeling as well (that's a lot more damaging on so many levels), in the opposite direction.
Anyway, my idea was in relation to usuba mainly, as the edge is quite delicate and needs to be as closed as possible in my experience, if board contact exists and also any technique will benefit if it's as sharp as possible.
Interesting results. You mentioned it, but, I would like to see the same length knives tested. The shortness basically limits him to push cuts instead of slicing also.
Interesting nonetheless.
Interesting nonetheless.
I guess that's why an area was locked out basically, with tape. But results seem to be quite consistent with this from what I've seen over the years.
I do not get it. The guy in the video got 63% performance increase by using 8000grit compared to 600grit and he says that it does not worth it?
Yes. It's a time thing. If it takes you 5 minutes of sharpening to cut 1000 times and 30 minutes to cut 3000 times, that's actually not 6x better.
Obviously there's more to it, but this is a very common perspective to justify it.
Obviously there's more to it, but this is a very common perspective to justify it.
I understand the time angle, but in this particular case it makes no sense either. When you do your sharpening on 600grit its where you do all the heavy lifting, moving up to 8000 grit does not take 68% longer. I know that in this video he started on 1K and moved to 8K bla bla bla, but that's on him.
I agree, but the argument will always be that it takes more or it feels that way on a subjective level.
It's a bit funny with steeling, at home. Because the supreme argument is that a few seconds before cutting anything is not wasting time with stone sharpening. It's been just two days since again I was told this.
It's a bit funny with steeling, at home. Because the supreme argument is that a few seconds before cutting anything is not wasting time with stone sharpening. It's been just two days since again I was told this.
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I can maintain my home-used carbons — from soft French to AS — by simple means: a Belgian Blue Brocken, occasionally a Junpaku 8k. Rarely have to go back to 2k. Only if that doesn't work, it gets a full progression, with some thinning behind the edge, starting with a coarse or medium-coarse.
It allows me to have my knives in excellent condition without having to give it a full sharpening more than strictly necessary – with all the waste of material it involves.
Speaking of steel rods: if you have a poor one — those who create a burr — it only fatigues a bit more the steel that has already failed. The benefit is very short, and expect a full sharpening to be needed afterwards. Have seen quite some vintages who were steeled to death, feeling like butter: expect some serious work on coarse stones before reaching fresh steel that's able to take and hold an edge.
It allows me to have my knives in excellent condition without having to give it a full sharpening more than strictly necessary – with all the waste of material it involves.
Speaking of steel rods: if you have a poor one — those who create a burr — it only fatigues a bit more the steel that has already failed. The benefit is very short, and expect a full sharpening to be needed afterwards. Have seen quite some vintages who were steeled to death, feeling like butter: expect some serious work on coarse stones before reaching fresh steel that's able to take and hold an edge.
