Knife2meatu
Senior Member
What are thinning that your SP120 needs refreshing? Oh wait, I'm thinking Shapton Pro, but perhaps you meant Sigma Power?
Naniwa pro400 or shapton glass500
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What are thinning that your SP120 needs refreshing? Oh wait, I'm thinking Shapton Pro, but perhaps you meant Sigma Power?
Shapton Pro 120 basically needs refreshing on everything except stainless cladding. Stainless cladding causes the stone to release grit.
inferno
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i just dont understand how you would get "exposed" in any kind of way to SiC when you sprinkle it on a wet glass plate.
also i dont think its more or less dangerous than aluminum oxide powder (any synth stone slurry) cbn/diamond/SiN/boron carbide/etc etc etc
and also jnats are silicon crystals if i'm not mistaking, and its not good either.
from what i've gathered, all sharp crystals and fibers (such as carbon/kevlar etc) that enters your lungs can cause cancer by prolonged irritation of the outer layer of the lungs. but if you can sharpen your knives on water stones and not die from that, i guess its safe to flatten on wet SiC too.
SiC stones have been used for millions of years
ok not really but at leasty for 100 or so. sure they have been traditionally used with oil. and thats a petroleum product. and almost all petroleum products such as oils and greases are known to cause cancer with skin contact. i'd say this is much much more likely to kill you. by a factor of like 10-100x.
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i work with hydraulic stuff and at work most of the people work without gloves. but i read the msds for hydraulic oil. and its a known carcinogen. as all petroleum oils are. and they are readily absorbed too. so i always work with nitrile gloves. always.
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either way, stefan wolf has been using loose grit SiC for probaly at least 10 years and he's still alive. so i guess its kinda safe
also i dont think its more or less dangerous than aluminum oxide powder (any synth stone slurry) cbn/diamond/SiN/boron carbide/etc etc etc
and also jnats are silicon crystals if i'm not mistaking, and its not good either.
from what i've gathered, all sharp crystals and fibers (such as carbon/kevlar etc) that enters your lungs can cause cancer by prolonged irritation of the outer layer of the lungs. but if you can sharpen your knives on water stones and not die from that, i guess its safe to flatten on wet SiC too.
SiC stones have been used for millions of years
ok not really but at leasty for 100 or so. sure they have been traditionally used with oil. and thats a petroleum product. and almost all petroleum products such as oils and greases are known to cause cancer with skin contact. i'd say this is much much more likely to kill you. by a factor of like 10-100x.---------
i work with hydraulic stuff and at work most of the people work without gloves. but i read the msds for hydraulic oil. and its a known carcinogen. as all petroleum oils are. and they are readily absorbed too. so i always work with nitrile gloves. always.
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either way, stefan wolf has been using loose grit SiC for probaly at least 10 years and he's still alive. so i guess its kinda safe
inferno
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) <*))))><
this is most likely complete BS, like you would get cancer by touching SiC. its one of the most inert chemicals in the entire universe!!
inferno
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) <*))))><
ruso you probably dont need to run in and out of the balcony with the pro120 every 5 minutes.
if you get the coarse surface on there and keep at least some of the 120 stone slurry on the stone while sharpening the stone will basically condition it self with that slurry. and you keep that aggressive surface.
but you need to use the blade to direct the wear on the stone. you use the parts that are higher. until the stone is flat (-ish) again.
if i dont need a truly flat coarse stone (and i very seldom do) i just flatten the stone by sharpening on different parts of it, since coarse stones basically just melt away in front of you anyway, its not so hard to see where you need to use the stone.
but sometimes you still need to flatten it, and then it turns to a 500 in speed. and then you need to get the powder out. to "resurface" it. and then its the same sh1t all over again. use the parts thats higher, but sooner or later you have to flatten it.
all coarse stones work like this. they are fast because they shed the blunt abrasives fast. to expose sharp fresh abrasive. there is no free lunch.
if you get the coarse surface on there and keep at least some of the 120 stone slurry on the stone while sharpening the stone will basically condition it self with that slurry. and you keep that aggressive surface.
but you need to use the blade to direct the wear on the stone. you use the parts that are higher. until the stone is flat (-ish) again.
if i dont need a truly flat coarse stone (and i very seldom do) i just flatten the stone by sharpening on different parts of it, since coarse stones basically just melt away in front of you anyway, its not so hard to see where you need to use the stone.
but sometimes you still need to flatten it, and then it turns to a 500 in speed. and then you need to get the powder out. to "resurface" it. and then its the same sh1t all over again. use the parts thats higher, but sooner or later you have to flatten it.
all coarse stones work like this. they are fast because they shed the blunt abrasives fast. to expose sharp fresh abrasive. there is no free lunch.
big D
Well-Known Member
SiC powder is probably less expensive, but reading this makes me wonder if after flattening, would using another flat stone of same grit against the flattened one bring it back to prime?
Edited to add: Perhaps with coarse stones there is something to consider flattening between 3 identical stones. Use each and then flatten between them to a workable flatness on all 3?
Thoughts?
D.
inferno
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using even the same grit stone on a coarse stone will not bring it back to original state imo. it will become way way too fine.
you need 50-60-80 grit powder to get a 220 going well imo. the 220 will still work when flattened with a diamond stone but it will be ultra slow compared to new.
you need 50-60-80 grit powder to get a 220 going well imo. the 220 will still work when flattened with a diamond stone but it will be ultra slow compared to new.
big D
Well-Known Member
I was thinking the coarseness of the flattening plate was the issue. Interesting that something coarser is needed. I shall have to experiment some. Thank you.
D.
D.
I have the same exact experience. Flattening plates or same grit SiC wont refresh the surface. It just keeps feeling mellow. 80-90 SiC does the trick for me.
My buddy Francis from Knifewear told me to use this thing to refresh a rough stone. it works great and it's cheap if it's mess up.
KingShapton
Senior Member
Can't find it online, can you post a link?My buddy Francis from Knifewear told me to use this thing to refresh a rough stone. it works great and it's cheap if it's mess up.
This is my philosophy. I use SiC on granite of they get really bad but mostly I just rub stones together. I group them into categories. I have about a half dozen 5$ Chinese diamond plates. They are rarely used and I've never purchased an atoma. I just segregate my stones by category and I have at least 3 in each category so that by rotating them I keep them all relatively flat. Synthetic oil stones with other synthetic oil stones, Japanese soakers with other soakers, Shapton Glass and pro with each other. I have tomo nagura for my finishers. Jasper to clean and condition my jasper. A little piece of surgical black ark to treat my translucent Ark. Coticules with coticules, etc. With some I use the slurry. But for other it's just to keep the surface fresh and clean and to aid some in extending the period between flattenings.
Here's my Ark with Ark nagura.
inferno
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its a truing/dressing tool for grinding wheels.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Diamond+grinding+wheel+dressing+tool&t=hk&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images
now these are actually the not so good ones for truing grinding wheels. you want ones with maybe 5-20 longer diamond sticks embedded in steel. they last longer. they are called multipoint dressing/truing tools.
the plated ones will be better for stones obviously since the other ones below would most likely be almost useless.
inferno
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) <*))))><
btw for higher grit stones, you can use whatever to clean/flatten them. from maybe 1k and up it doesn't really matter. i usually rub a 1k on a 4k and similar to expose fresh abrasive/clean them before use.
the reason I use it is that it is 36 grit that could scratch a surface of the rough whetstone and help it cut again. It cost CAD $13 at Lee Valley and probably less in Amazon. I have a 200 grit SC stone that starts to clog up, and refresh it with this one and viola!! it starts to cut perfectly again.its a truing/dressing tool for grinding wheels.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Diamond+grinding+wheel+dressing+tool&t=hk&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images
now these are actually the not so good ones for truing grinding wheels. you want ones with maybe 5-20 longer diamond sticks embedded in steel. they last longer. they are called multipoint dressing/truing tools.
the plated ones will be better for stones obviously since the other ones below would most likely be almost useless.
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big D
Well-Known Member
Rubbing stones together is all I have been doing so far also. Got an atoma and have yet to use it. Actually was considering getting a duplicate, one for shapeing and the other for flattening, but going to have to get some SiC and give it a try.. Heck Just sharpened and forgot I had a new 220 sitting there...gettin old and feeble minded.
)So I've changed my routine a bit. Instead of Naniwa Professional 400, I used Nanohone 400 and instead of jumping to Naniwa Professional 2000 first, I was able use the Naniwa Professional 5000 and get a rather clean almost mirror finish bevel. Not possible to same effect directly from Naniwa Pro 400. This fine texture was right away one of the reasons I liked Nanohone 400 so much.
Still, Naniwa was more focused, more predictable, with better control. I had to be more careful and manage slurry a lot more with Nanohone.
Now, for my application here, I've done about a dozen knives, but can't compare with Shapton as for recurve blades it is rather useless.
Still, Naniwa was more focused, more predictable, with better control. I had to be more careful and manage slurry a lot more with Nanohone.
Now, for my application here, I've done about a dozen knives, but can't compare with Shapton as for recurve blades it is rather useless.
Bobby2shots
Senior Member
Ruso,
SiC may be an eye or nose "irritant" if air-borne particles permeate the atmosphere in which you're working, and you inhale enough of those particles. (as ANY substance would). This certainly would not apply to using heavy-grit and wet SiC that you'd be using for flattening stones on plate glass.
Where does your reference to SiC being a possible carcinogen come from? The only evidence I've seen was from the New Jersey Dept. of health, in which they state something along the line of "MAY POSSIBLY cause cancer in animals,,, and they go on to say "but there is no actual evidence of this", nor how an animal would come into contact with, or have the desire to, inhale or ingest SiC.
SiC may be an eye or nose "irritant" if air-borne particles permeate the atmosphere in which you're working, and you inhale enough of those particles. (as ANY substance would). This certainly would not apply to using heavy-grit and wet SiC that you'd be using for flattening stones on plate glass.
Where does your reference to SiC being a possible carcinogen come from? The only evidence I've seen was from the New Jersey Dept. of health, in which they state something along the line of "MAY POSSIBLY cause cancer in animals,,, and they go on to say "but there is no actual evidence of this", nor how an animal would come into contact with, or have the desire to, inhale or ingest SiC.
