Narrow Bob kramer

[Vertigo]

Most people on KKF that have bought these chef knives have thought pretty highly of them. Rock chop vs push cuts are a personal thing, and decades ago rock chopping was the norm (Mr. Kramer is not a spring chicken). The profile he went with suited his cutting style, and the triangular shape/ high heel was for scooping chopped stuff off the board faster. He had this profile long before Zwilling contracted with him for the collaboration. For years, people who won the lottery and could order from him basically received this profile unless they asked for something different (i.e., like Salty did).

Kramer was very fortunate to receive the high rating from Cooks Illustrated, which catapulted him from a struggling maker to someone who could not come close to keeping up with the demand. And he'll be the first to tell you that. Also, many of the US makers who came into prominence 15 or so years ago were partially inspired to jump in thanks to Kramer's success. It showed it was possible to make a living, and even build a full business, forging kitchen knives in the US.

For years Kramer sold knives at a relatively low cost while the people who bought them (i.e., the lottery winners) turned around and resold them for massive gains. It became normal to buy two when you won -- one to keep and one to sell for a big windfall. Kramer eventually figured if that was the value the buying public was placing on his knives than he really should be receiving a good chunk of that money, not the 'lottery winners'. And because he really is a considerate person, he started auctioning off knives and giving proceeds to charity.

But really, the main issue is the geometry doesn't work for you. Understandable. And on the shorter chef knives it a big issue for many who prefer flatter blades. On the 10 inch chef knives there is substantially more flattish blade for push cutting. I haven't hear many owners comment that the handles were too big, but maybe some will chime in.

Thank you for the thoughtful writeup. I'll try to be a little less vitriolic and quick to trash on people.

 

[WildBoar]

Thank you for the thoughtful writeup. I'll try to be a little less vitriolic and quick to trash on people.

Fun fact -- when the Zwelling line first came out, Zwelling worked out a 'tour' for Kramer to visit Sur La Table locations around the US. This was when the lottery for his customs was coming to an end, and quite a few KKFers had managed to score some of his knives. Kramer and his wife graciously agreed to join a handful of us, and our SOs, for dinner at a restaurant lead by a KKF chef. Kramer did not know any of us, but was happy meet us and hang out with people who knew about knives and cooking (now that I think about it, I was the only KKFer there that was not a chef). We all had a very enjoyable evening, sitting in a large round table in a back corner of the restaurant. Some of us brought knives from other makers, which we passed around and Kramer gave them a once over as well and provided good commentary.

There was a very sad thing about that evening that has marred my otherwise happy memory. ChucktheButcher, one of Kramer's biggest KKF fans, who owned two of his knives and was really looking forward to the dinner, did not show up and did not respond to my calls/ texts. We found out 2 days later that, while we were at dinner, Chuck was in the hospital in a coma as the result of drug overdose the night before. They removed his life support the same day the family reached out to people that had left texts and VMs on his phone. (sorry for this tangent, but the two events are forever entangled in my brain. Chuck visited my house a couple times, came to an ECG, and we had been to the restaurant his family had recently opened a couple of times)

A couple years later Kramer stopped in at a gathering some KKFers had in the Pacific northwest area, and hung out for a bit.

Kramer made knife to help cooks/ chefs. He was fully aware of the irony concerning his knives being worth far too much for a typical cook to afford. The Zwelling collaboration gave him a chance to provide knives at a more affordable price point that has a lot of similarities to his customs. Please keep in mind typical kitchen stores did not sell carbon knives at that time -- only stainless steel.

 

[esoo]

I've had both the ZKramer 8" and 10" Carbon in the 1.0 versions. I thought the shape of the 8" was a bit curvy, but 10" has got a pretty versatile profile on it. The 6" ones just look weirdly over curved and I'd never get one.

I push/rock/pull cut depending on what I'm working on and never had an issue with it. The 52100 is treated well and is very solid. It might not be as hard as others, but it's pretty darn bulletproof. The handles may look a bit goofy, but as a full tang, they are tapered to the butt and all of my examples have balanced perfectly at the pinch. The 10" is far more nimble than it should be for 300g. It also has a distal taper that puts many a knife to shame - it a smooth continuous taper from handle to tip. The only maker that has matched it in the taper department is Kamon in the knives I've had.

The clear knock on the knife is that it is flat ground. And the 1.0 versions had the wood handles that shrink, making the rivets proud. My impressions is that Zwilling dropped the ball on the 2.0 version (for example, the balance is off, and the I dislike the layout of the choil).

I've had both the SG2 and Stainless (AEB-L?) versions as well. I found them both to be soulless knives - they miss the magic of Carbon.

 

[SharpestToolintheShed]

Speaking of Kramer, I saw this the other day at a knife store. They wouldn’t let me touch it, so no input on handle for me.

View attachment 315631

Lame! I was at his Humboldt st studio and he let me handle the Queen Bee.

 

[Barmoley]

Fundamentally I just really dislike the profiles, they're like an LSD fueled absurdist impression of "rock chopping," like proto-dalstrongs that only make sense if you use your knife like a first year cook who has never been shown efficiency. The handles are big dumb too, but don't bother me nearly as much, since handles are counterbalances and who would even care about the balance point on a Kramer.

What really lit the fire were the videos and writeups and the narrative surrounding the product itself, that pushed both him and his products into this entirely unwarranted legendary status. It was one more nail in the coffin, cementing the trend in the kitchen knife world that name and brand and price tag are more important than performance. So it's way less about the knives themselves, and much more what the knives stand for.

It sounds like you haven't used these knives or they just absolutely don't work for you, which is odd since most can adapt to many different knives. They are not bad the 8" is a bit goofy in the profile, but even that is not badly balanced and the handle is comfortable in pinch grip for many. The 10" is much better and there are very few complaints about them. I get they might not be your cup of tea, but I wouldn't call them bad knives at all. They are much better than many knives in the same price range. ZKramers are also pretty close to what his customs used to be at the time that ZKramers came out. Here's a comparison of the real Kramer and ZKramer https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/...10-chefs-knive-arrived.1424/?highlight=kramer

The biggest complaint I've heard is that they are thick behind the edge, but for a production knife what would you expect? The ones that were thinned by Jon at JKI are much better and are widely liked. So I get the profile might not work for you, but I am puzzled by the rest of your statements. I don't like thick handles and like blade forward balance, but even for me ZKramer handles are comfortable and the balance is good especially on the 10", 8" I don't like due to the profile and height at the heel compared to the length. I've only had experience with the first version of ZKramer not the v2.0.