Narrow Bob kramer

[shobudonnie]

Does anyone own one of those narrow Bob kramer production knives? Are these really the best production knives in the world?

Can I see a choil shot?

 

[Vertigo]

Are these really the best production knives in the world?

You trollin?

 

[nhb22]

You trollin?

I imagine he meant Miyabi kinda production knife - something you can buy from Macy's

 

[aporigine]

Does anyone own one of those narrow Bob kramer production knives? Are these really the best production knives in the world?

Can I see a choil shot?

asking for a choil shot on the first date — !

 

[Barmoley]

Maybe?

 

[Vertigo]

I imagine he meant Miyabi kinda production knife - something you can buy from Macy's

I understood what he meant, idk if *he* understood what he meant.

 

[nhb22]

Maybe?

View attachment 315126

I have used one of these. the drag from the etched damascus is unbelievably bad.

 

[Vertigo]

I have used one of these. the drag from the etched damascus is unbelievably bad.

At least your criticism is utilitarian. I can't get over the heckin' awful font and printing of the brand on top of the pattern itself. Good gravy.

 

[jedy617]

this guy is a known troller, but yeah I had one of these. Was fine. Decent-ish steel, grind was not super thin.

 

[Jeff]

I have some Kramer carbon steel knives (got em cheap 50%+ off) If memory serves 52100.

Thin and pretty good but, as with ALL KRAMERS, the grip is just incomfortinle in my hand … too big for my hand.

 

[Vertigo]

I have some Kramer carbon steel knives (got em cheap 50%+ off) If memory serves 52100.

Thin and pretty good but, as with ALL KRAMERS, the grip is just incomfortinle in my hand … too big for my hand.

Kramer is most known for his incomfortinle grip. And impractical blade shape. And everything else that ignores the actual important things about our tools, because they're made by a dipshit who has never had to blast through a 40# case of chicken thighs. But holy ****, this dude nailed it on a once in a lifetime deal on branding and pricing xD

 

[Jeff]

Kramer is most known for his incomfortinle grip. And impractical blade shape. And everything else that ignores the actual important things about our tools, because they're made by a dipshit who has never had to blast through a 40# case of chicken thighs. But holy ****, this dude nailed it on a once in a lifetime deal on branding and pricing xD

Yup - I’m a home cook so 6 onions is a full day of prep.

For that kind of prep any handle will do!

 

[blokey]

Kramer is most known for his incomfortinle grip. And impractical blade shape. And everything else that ignores the actual important things about our tools, because they're made by a dipshit who has never had to blast through a 40# case of chicken thighs. But holy ****, this dude nailed it on a once in a lifetime deal on branding and pricing xD

TBH consider what a lot of German brands is putting out these days he’s not the worst offender

 

[SharpestToolintheShed]

I have one of his Zwilling Carbon 2.0
it's a decent knife for the price. His originals are a whole different beast.

 

[WildBoar]

Kramer is most known for his incomfortinle grip. And impractical blade shape. And everything else that ignores the actual important things about our tools, because they're made by a dipshit who has never had to blast through a 40# case of chicken thighs. But holy ****, this dude nailed it on a once in a lifetime deal on branding and pricing xD

Seriously? You cannot be further off the mark. He was a cook in his early years, and that led to him eventually designing a knife the way it was most useful to him.

Your post is a huge insult to a person that spent many years in low paying jobs, and who eventually learned to sharpen -- and then make -- knives. In his early days as a maker he slept in his shop because he could not afford an apartment as well.

Sorry, but you 100% do not know what the fk you are talking about.

 

[ethompson]

Yeah, I prefer flatter profiles, clad knives, and wa handles in general - but I find Bob's 10" chef to be a very intuitive enjoyable knife. Handle is extremely comfortable. I've seen one original but never gotten to use one. Like my 52100 one from Zwilling it showed insane taper but had great subtle convexity and superlative fit & finish. I can see why the profile is everyone's cuppa and also understand why some would role their eyes at the prices he commands these days, but to say he doesn't make practical tools is silly

 

[Gavva]

Speaking of Kramer, I saw this the other day at a knife store. They wouldn’t let me touch it, so no input on handle for me.

 

[Vertigo]

Seriously? You cannot be further off the mark. He was a cook in his early years, and that led to him eventually designing a knife the way it was most useful to him.

Your post is a huge insult to a person that spent many years in low paying jobs, and who eventually learned to sharpen -- and then make -- knives. In his early days as a maker he slept in his shop because he could not afford an apartment as well.

Sorry, but you 100% do not know what the fk you are talking about.

Clearly I didn't, and I didn't mean to imply that he never worked a day in his life. But telling me that guy actually *has* cooking experience only makes things frickin worse, you understand that right? That those dumbsh*t handles, dumbsh*t profiles, and dumbsh*t prices come from someone within the industry just further solidifies my belief that cooks don't understand the tools of their own trade? Like, my bad man, yes I made an assumption but I hope you can at least see why it was easy assumption to make.

 

[ethompson]

 

[chiffonodd]

Speaking of Kramer, I saw this the other day at a knife store. They wouldn’t let me touch it, so no input on handle for me.

View attachment 315631

got their zwillings on louvre style lock like they were actual kramers

 

[Hockey3081]

because they're made by a dipshit who has never had to blast through a 40# case of chicken thighs.

This seems overly harsh. Everyone has different tastes and preferences. I happen to enjoy the feeling of my zKramer. I doubt Bourdain sang his knives’ praises out of charity.

 

[Vertigo]

This seems overly harsh. Everyone has different tastes and preferences.

Yeah, my original post was both rightfully called out as being inaccurate, and was admittedly overly harsh. My dislike for Kramers got the better of me.

 

[Jovidah]

@Vertigo honest question as someone who never used a ZKramer, can you specify where your dislike comes from?

I never used one (and likely never will)... and I expect it won't be my cup of tea because it's too tall and heavy for my taste...but I can imagine it's right up some people's alley over here who gravitate more towards workhorsey stuff?
Big fat handles sounds like a good thing when at least half the knives seem to have handles that are too skinny.

 

[Matt Jacobs]

In my opinion there is really nothing wrong with the ZKramers. I owned the original Damascus version that was made by Shun before it was purchased by Zwilling. I have tried the newer 52100 and FC61 versions. The handle was definitely too tall for me but worked fine in a pinch grip. The knife itself is tall but I like tall knives so that was great. There was too much belly for my personal preference but I suspect the majority of people buying these are used to rock chopping and wouldn't find it an issue. The steels used are great, very tough and easy to sharpen. Definitely too thick behind the edge but no more so than Steelport and certainly useable. I think the one thing we need to keep in mind is that these are sold commercially to all kinds of people. These big companies cant afford to make super thin knives or they would be doing "warranty" work all day long. I have owned knives from makers on this forum (no I wont say who) that have reached out to me to say there the knife of theirs I have was made for retail and therefore not as thin as it would be if I ordered a custom. I have never tried a "real" Kramer but I did hold one at Epic Edge. They are not the same as the ZKramer, he makes an amazing knife. If I were to end up with one I am sure I would sell it just because its not my style and its worth a mint but Bob knows what he is doing.

 

[Vertigo]

@Vertigo honest question as someone who never used a ZKramer, can you specify where your dislike comes from?

I never used one (and likely never will)... and I expect it won't be my cup of tea because it's too tall and heavy for my taste...but I can imagine it's right up some people's alley over here who gravitate more towards workhorsey stuff?
Big fat handles sounds like a good thing when at least half the knives seem to have handles that are too skinny.

Fundamentally I just really dislike the profiles, they're like an LSD fueled absurdist impression of "rock chopping," like proto-dalstrongs that only make sense if you use your knife like a first year cook who has never been shown efficiency. The handles are big dumb too, but don't bother me nearly as much, since handles are counterbalances and who would even care about the balance point on a Kramer.

What really lit the fire were the videos and writeups and the narrative surrounding the product itself, that pushed both him and his products into this entirely unwarranted legendary status. It was one more nail in the coffin, cementing the trend in the kitchen knife world that name and brand and price tag are more important than performance. So it's way less about the knives themselves, and much more what the knives stand for.

 

[chiffonodd]

What really lit the fire were the videos and writeups and the narrative surrounding the product itself, that pushed both him and his products into this entirely unwarranted legendary status. It was one more nail in the coffin, cementing the trend in the kitchen knife world that name and brand and price tag are more important than performance. So it's way less about the knives themselves, and much more what the knives stand for.

The Taylor Swift of kitchen knives

Nothing against Mr. Kramer, personally, though. The hype is ridiculously overblown but I think that the fault lies with the masses.

 

[Vertigo]

The Taylor Swift of kitchen knives

Nothing against Mr. Kramer, personally, though. The hype is ridiculously overblown but I think that the fault lies with the masses.

I do feel like an ass for attacking him directly earlier. Everything I've seen of the guy, he seems cool. And I'm glad he was able to get his bag.

 

[WildBoar]

Most people on KKF that have bought these chef knives have thought pretty highly of them. Rock chop vs push cuts are a personal thing, and decades ago rock chopping was the norm (Mr. Kramer is not a spring chicken). The profile he went with suited his cutting style, and the triangular shape/ high heel was for scooping chopped stuff off the board faster. He had this profile long before Zwilling contracted with him for the collaboration. For years, people who won the lottery and could order from him basically received this profile unless they asked for something different (i.e., like Salty did).

Kramer was very fortunate to receive the high rating from Cooks Illustrated, which catapulted him from a struggling maker to someone who could not come close to keeping up with the demand. And he'll be the first to tell you that. Also, many of the US makers who came into prominence 15 or so years ago were partially inspired to jump in thanks to Kramer's success. It showed it was possible to make a living, and even build a full business, forging kitchen knives in the US.

For years Kramer sold knives at a relatively low cost while the people who bought them (i.e., the lottery winners) turned around and resold them for massive gains. It became normal to buy two when you won -- one to keep and one to sell for a big windfall. Kramer eventually figured if that was the value the buying public was placing on his knives than he really should be receiving a good chunk of that money, not the 'lottery winners'. And because he really is a considerate person, he started auctioning off knives and giving proceeds to charity.

But really, the main issue is the geometry doesn't work for you. Understandable. And on the shorter chef knives it a big issue for many who prefer flatter blades. On the 10 inch chef knives there is substantially more flattish blade for push cutting. I haven't hear many owners comment that the handles were too big, but maybe some will chime in.

 

[aporigine]

I must say I rather like the profile of that short gyuto (middle one in the case). If that came with a wa handle, I’d consider it.

Disclaimer: low-volume home cook. Were I a pro, I’d possibly find fault with the absence of a flat spot.

 

[chiffonodd]

Most people on KKF that have bought these chef knives have thought pretty highly of them. Rock chop vs push cuts are a personal thing, and decades ago rock chopping was the norm (Mr. Kramer is not a spring chicken). The profile he went with suited his cutting style, and the triangular shape/ high heel was for scooping chopped stuff off the board faster. He had this profile long before Zwilling contracted with him for the collaboration. For years, people who won the lottery and could order from him basically received this profile unless they asked for something different (i.e., like Salty did).

Kramer was very fortunate to receive the high rating from Cooks Illustrated, which catapulted him from a struggling maker to someone who could not come close to keeping up with the demand. And he'll be the first to tell you that. Also, many of the US makers who came into prominence 15 or so years ago were partially inspired to jump in thanks to Kramer's success. It showed it was possible to make a living, and even build a full business, forging kitchen knives in the US.

For years Kramer sold knives at a relatively low cost while the people who bought them (i.e., the lottery winners) turned around and resold them for massive gains. It became normal to buy two when you won -- one to keep and one to sell for a big windfall. Kramer eventually figured if that was the value the buying public was placing on his knives than he really should be receiving a good chunk of that money, not the 'lottery winners'. And because he really is a considerate person, he started auctioning off knives and giving proceeds to charity.

But really, the main issue is the geometry doesn't work for you. Understandable. And on the shorter chef knives it a big issue for many who prefer flatter blades. On the 10 inch chef knives there is substantially more flattish blade for push cutting. I haven't hear many owners comment that the handles were too big, but maybe some will chime in.

I don't dispute that they're high quality knives, the issue is the disparity where a basic Kramer gyuto will sell for $18,000 and a top of the line Isasmedjan (etc.) will sell for $1,200. Of course, that's not Kramer's fault, but it is bemusing at the least.