new kitchen, let's talk downlight or lighting plans

[MarcelNL]

Our new house is going to be ready in another month or two, the kitchen is ordered (combination of bookmatched walnut veneer cabinets under the island and sterling gray soft lacquer cabinets topped with Belgian blue composite top) and I need to find me some downlights to go over the cooking counter (to be mounted in a lowered ceiling )....length of that section is like 280 cm long and the usual 63 cm deep, located at the right upper hand of the drawing.

I'm thinking three or four LED based downlights, with recessed lighting source as not to stare right into them, prefereable dimmable. Tips and thoughts please....(please note I'm living in the EU, so 230V and brands available here)

 

[coxhaus]

I used 3 four-foot LED lights mounted in the ceiling over the counter that covers the range, sink and main workspace. It gives plenty of light

 

[MarcelNL]

you mean LED strips or panels? (Panels IMO make the kitchen look like it is bathing in loads of Neon tubes.

 

[mengwong]

I have had bad experiences with under-cabinet LED strip mounted too high up or too far forward leading to direct glare especially for short people, so for the upcoming kitchen I spent quite some time with the designer on this, and we ended up with this recessed solution. Should illuminate the countertop exactly without too much spill onto the floor.

May go with Philips Hue indoor strip.

 

[MarcelNL]

Let me add that we do not have overhead cabinets where the lighting can be integrated, but I dig the idea of recessing a strip by approx 20mm or so, yet the light power may be too little. the false ceiling is about 230cm high and the countertop approx 90 cm.

 

[coxhaus]

you mean LED strips or panels? (Panels IMO make the kitchen look like it is bathing in loads of Neon tubes.

Mine are recessed up in the ceiling. I used Costco's bright 4-foot LED shop lights 110v. You don't see them. Each one is equivalent to a 2 tube 4-foot shop light mounted in the ceiling. Plenty of light. I don't know about 220v.
Here is a picture at night with all lights off in the kitchen except the counter lights.

 

[mengwong]

Ah. Have you got a Häfele showroom near you? We are using them for the modular components and it looks like they have a range of LED solutions that may work for you.

https://www.hafele.nl/nl/info/producten/factfinder/loox-lineaire-verlichting/113893/
If there’s no cabinet you may yet be able to integrate with their backsplash-shelf system, alternatively a recess in the ceiling with very narrow spots might be a good compromise.

This sort of thing is pretty standard: DEEP FLAME - Recessed ceiling spotlight by LIRALIGHTING | ArchiExpo

But a deep recessed / concealed LED strip like @coxhaus said might be interesting:
https://store.horizon-lights.com.sg...magnetic-track-for-magnetic-track-lights-set/

 

[MarcelNL]

Ah. Have you got a Häfele showroom near you? We are using them for the modular components and it looks like they have a range of LED solutions that may work for you.

https://www.hafele.nl/nl/info/producten/factfinder/loox-lineaire-verlichting/113893/
If there’s no cabinet you may yet be able to integrate with their backsplash-shelf system, alternatively a recess in the ceiling with very narrow spots might be a good compromise.

This sort of thing is pretty standard: DEEP FLAME - Recessed ceiling spotlight by LIRALIGHTING | ArchiExpo

But a deep recessed / concealed LED strip like @coxhaus said might be interesting:
https://store.horizon-lights.com.sg...magnetic-track-for-magnetic-track-lights-set/

someting like this may indeed be what I'm looking for, thanks!

 

[Jovidah]

The biggest issue with my current setup (which was pretty much organized in a hurry on a budget when I moved in and never got adjusted since) is that there's quite a few spots where my own body is blocking light, especially at my kitchen island.
If you're not having upper cabinets are you at least having shelves? Personally I'd really hate to not have any high storage; it's the most ergonomical to access IMO. Knee to nipple is IMO where the best storage height is, but I'll still happily take anything up to 2m over lower cabinets that force me to bend down.

 

[MarcelNL]

The biggest issue with my current setup (which was pretty much organized in a hurry on a budget when I moved in and never got adjusted since) is that there's quite a few spots where my own body is blocking light, especially at my kitchen island.
If you're not having upper cabinets are you at least having shelves? Personally I'd really hate to not have any high storage; it's the most ergonomical to access IMO. Knee to nipple is IMO where the best storage height is, but I'll still happily take anything up to 2m over lower cabinets that force me to bend down.

we have plenty of storage planned but no overhead cabinets as I HATE hitting my head against cabinets or range hoods (at 6"3 that is a given with anything within reach).

As to bodies blocking light that is a good thing to consider, I'll make sure to check that when visiting a lighting store (I expect that the position of a light strip should be able to prevent that issue)

 

[Jovidah]

I feel your pain about hitting range hoods; I'm 190 myself and I've hit them in almost every house I've cooked in... It's like they're never designed with tall people in mind. I'd still hate to have no high storage though; it's where I put all my most-used stuff. Trick to making it less obstrusive IMO is to just make them a lot less depth... and/or open shelving. Bending over to grab everything gets old fast IMO, although it's not as bad when you at least have a lot of drawers.

I guess it's too late to change anything about the dimensions / positioning in the design?
Personally I'd have made 2 major changes: more countertop depth, and changing the position of the stove so you don't have 1 meter on each side but a bit more on one side to get a more generous prep space. I have about 1 meter on the side of my stove now and I wished I had more, especially since I also only have a depth of 60.

 

[MarcelNL]

I hear what you are saying!
We have ton of drawer space planned and there is some high storage to the side of the cooking space,
More countertop depth will not work as there is a window at each side and neither is no deeper, yet the island is planned to be the prep space too and we have like 135 cm to the left of the induction hob and like 55 cm to the right

 

[coxhaus]

I guess it's too late to change anything about the dimensions / positioning in the design?
Personally I'd have made 2 major changes: more countertop depth, and changing the position of the stove so you don't have 1 meter on each side but a bit more on one side to get a more generous prep space. I have about 1 meter on the side of my stove now and I wished I had more, especially since I also only have a depth of 60.

This is the reason I went with a 36-inch range instead of a 48-inch. I do miss dual ovens. Of course, dual ovens in a 48-inch are not full size and you cannot use a full sheet pan which I can do with a single oven in a 36-inch range.

I have a lot of counter space on the right and a four-foot sink which I can cover part with a large cutting board.

 

[Jovidah]

I hear what you are saying!
We have ton of drawer space planned and there is some high storage to the side of the cooking space,
More countertop depth will not work as there is a window at each side and neither is no deeper, yet the island is planned to be the prep space too and we have like 135 cm to the left of the induction hob and like 55 cm to the right

I kinda assumed your stove would be on the wall side? But it's not really clear from the downsized picture. 135 is probably just good enough. One of the reasons I prefer 1m+ is that IMO the first 30 cm is mostly useful for extra pan grating since it tends to catch a good amount of splash from the stove. Shame you can't fit more depth; it's IMO one of the most simple yet functional upgrades.
Originally I also planned to do most of my prep on my island, but I found that constantly turning around wasn't ideal... so in practise I usually end up ignoring my island and doing all my prep in the smaller space right next to the stove simply because it's more practical. Being able to check on the pans, stir, and toss stuff in without having to do that 180 degree turn is IMO a lot easier. But this could be one of those personal preference things... and if you have the space on the side at least you have both options open.

This is the reason I went with a 36-inch range instead of a 48-inch. I do miss dual ovens. Of course, dual ovens in a 48-inch are not full size and you cannot use a full sheet pan which I can do with a single oven in a 36-inch range.

I have a lot of counter space on the right and a four-foot sink which I can cover part with a large cutting board.

Dual ovens are IMO one of the simplest upgrades one can do to a kitchen, and once you get used to them it's hard to go without them. Doesn't even have to be two really fancy ones (although it helps if at least 1 is decent). Sizing...there's pros and cons. Larger fits more but they also heat a lot slower. I have a 90 cm and a 60 cm model and in practise the majority of the time I use the 60 cm one simply because it heats up faster. But whenever I'm doing potatoes or anything require a 'better' oven the 90 gets to play because it's far superior to my bargain basement 60 model; it makes far superior potatoes.

 

[coxhaus]

Yes, it is all a tradeoff.

 

[mengwong]

I came across this photo today – single mini shelf with light and railing system. I know Häfele do the railing system but I don’t know if the shelf is just a separate built-in. In any case it’s a design worth considering.

 

[Jovidah]

Ikea has a whole lineup like that if you don't mind having an Ikea look.
The minishelves... Honestly I experimented with it but it didn't really add a whole lot over a proper shelf or a wire shelf. Wire shelf is great because it can double as a rail. Downside is you can't hide lighing in it.
Also keep in mind that using rails to hang stuff near the stove can - depending on how good or bad your hood is - result in stuff getting dirty over time. My ventilation clearly isn't up to the task, so over time stuff hung next to the stove would slowly accumulate a thin coating of fat splatter.

 

[riba]

Due to some unfortunate circumstances I need to upgrade the amount of light in my house.

For custom/diy work I selected (bare) led strips from the Auxmer Official Store on AliExpress. High output, high quality strips. Also available with ip65 rating, CRI > 95 etc. Plenty of profiles (which are needed) too, e.g. at Aluminium LED Profiel kopen | Ruim aanbod They pack quite some punch (28.8W/m, up to 225Lm/W). Easy to add a dimmer (and zigbee controller for smarthouse, etc).

As test, I added the strips to a tall mirror and wardrobe. The bathroom (ceiling) is up next.

 

[Jovidah]

Ooh that reminds me... if you want something dimmable... take that into account when purchasing; not all normal led lamps play well with normal dimmers. I don't really know the specifics but I've known plenty of people who had trouble with it; it's something you'll want to dive into.

 

[MarcelNL]

The plan is to do mis en place on the island and put everything at the ready left of the cooktop, more than working on that area. Yeah adding depth is the best trick, in a previous house we used 70cm as depth and that makes a world of difference but here we only have 63 cm to 'stay out' of the windows.

@riba, thanks for that tip!

YES for SURE I will look into the dimming as that often works quite poorly, and the last thing I can stand is flickering light!

We may add a shelf later, purely for decorative purposes....we declined the shelf the kitchen store offered based on it's price tag...for 1500 euro I can buy a walnut tree and CNC mill a shelf from it....


So far I like the Häfele system using a 'lens', will see if it is as expensive as it appears ;-)

 

[MarcelNL]

Found the lens system in a shop in Latvia, turns out it's not that expensive. (35euro/2.5m), add a profile and led strip and it'll come in under 400 euro or so.

 

[riba]

https://www.ledprofiel.nl/linea14-dl-14mm-verzonken-led-profiel-1m-2m.html

 

[MarcelNL]

quick update: my GF sortof veto-d the lens system, we're still debating spots versus a linear LED in the strip Riba suggested (thanks!) ....

the good news is that the house will be ready early December, Kitchen will be installed by mid Jan

now for a sensible yet wow-y back splash

 

[Jovidah]

There are also bigger diffuser panels you could consider for under cabinet lightning.

 

[MarcelNL]

There are also bigger diffuser panels you could consider for under cabinet lightning.

I had a few of those in use in a previous house in the 'hobby corner' , those that I know do not have a comfy 'feel' about the light.....more like a 'cantina' brightly lit in neon, they DO put out a lot of light though!

 

[Jovidah]

I think you should be able to find those in different color temperatures, or even fully adressable / customizable. Even Ikea has them fairly cheap in at least somewhat warmer colors. I think these days a lot of these aren't really much more than some ledstrips with a cover.

 

[MarcelNL]

I think you should be able to find those in different color temperatures, or even fully adressable / customizable. Even Ikea has them fairly cheap in at least somewhat warmer colors. I think these days a lot of these aren't really much more than some ledstrips with a cover.

that is also my thought on these, I had one in RGB and one in warm white / white light.
So far I like the idea of the alu angled strip holding a COB with CRI >90 best but need to convince my GF as she seems to favor spots.

 

[WildBoar]

quick update: my GF sortof veto-d the lens system, we're still debating spots versus a linear LED in the strip Riba suggested (thanks!) ....

the good news is that the house will be ready early December, Kitchen will be installed by mid Jan

now for a sensible yet wow-y back splash

For countertop lighting go linear if you can. And always keep the light in front of you as discussed previously for avoiding casting shadows on your work area.

 

[coxhaus]

that is also my thought on these, I had one in RGB and one in warm white / white light.
So far I like the idea of the alu angled strip holding a COB with CRI >90 best but need to convince my GF as she seems to favor spots.

I had spotlights in my mountain home. The issue is your back ends up covering part of the spot and you end up with shadows which I did not like. Maybe if you don't have high cabinets and the lights could be above then it might work. We had high cabinets and the spots needed to be out.

 

[MarcelNL]

yeah, exactly my point...I think we now agree on a LED COB strip in the profile Riba suggested

going to order the profile now to test where to put the slit to mount it in!

If that solution does not work the panels will be next to try, nothing I hate more than having uneven, insufficient, rubbish light on a workspace and panels will likely end up in the shed for over the coffee roaster setup anyway.