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because my form goes to **** with herbs and I just sort of murder them dead because **** cilantro. and also **** parsley. I don't think it's very good on a knife blade, though?

edit: this is when they want them chopped super tiny, not julienned. And I have a big box of them to do.
 
Honestly I'm not sure why they don't just use a robot coupe...
 
meekle said:
because my form goes to **** with herbs and I just sort of murder them dead because **** cilantro. and also **** parsley. I don't think it's very good on a knife blade, though?

edit: this is when they want them chopped super tiny, not julienned. And I have a big box of them to do.
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To a first order approximation, Japanese knives suck at actual "rock-chopping", which is often what you want for this kind of herb cutting. My advice is buy a knife as a specialty knife just for this job. Something like a western knife in better steel, with more round/continuous curve profile. Trizor 10x is one examle, it came up in another thread recently.
 
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This is a classic issue most people have when buying their first Gyuto. There are so many options with thickness, grinds, bevels, steels, finishes, etc it can be overwhelming. I was in the same boat and after buying a few gyutos now (all different styles) I figured out what I liked and it was the opposite of what I thought I would like when starting out.

I’d highly recommend not spending a ton on your first knife because chances are it won’t be an ideal fit, but it takes having that knife to figure that out. A 240mm Gyuto will feel much more substantial than a 240mm Suji because of weight and blade height. It will also be much easier to sell on the BST if you end up not liking it.

My recommendation is buy a couple less expensive gyutos ($150-250) with different thicknesses/grinds and find out what you like. If you decide to only get one, then an all-around profile middleweight is a good start and it will teach you what you like and don’t like.

If you only want one knife, a Gengetsu or Kochi is a fantastic option. Gengetsu for less reactivity, Kochi for pure cutting performance. If you went the cheaper route, I’d go with a thinner blade (not a laser but thin) Wakui 240mm ($180) and a workhorse (thicker blade with beautiful grind) Watanabe 240mm ($230). You might find you like one over the other and then sell the one you don’t like and buy another knife more geared toward your preference. If you end up liking some characteristic of each one, then you might want a middleweight.

All of the knives I mentioned in 240mm are really popular and consistently sell on the BST like hot cakes.
 
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meekle said:
Let's say I bow to the wisdom of the people (and that is why I'm here) and get the Gengetsu- It only comes in 240, but I mean, that's probably plenty- I can pick up a beater mercer or vic for destroying boxes of herbs...

As far as I can tell, no one has really ever regretted getting a Gengetsu. Is this accurate? For people who have both a Gengetsu and a Ginga- which do you prefer as your daily use knife?
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I had a 240 (and a 210) semi stainless Gengetsu and have a 240 (and a 210) shirogami Ginga, I sold the Gengetsus because the profile was too flat for me. The profile on the Ginga is pretty much in the middle between a continuous gentle curve and a flat profile, it rocks just fine but does stop a tab bit abruptly when rocking, makes a gentle thwack, it has a small flat spot, no back belly. That being said, I'm looking to get another Gengetsu (210) as I like to push cut more and more.
Just a home cook here with 1 year of J knife experience.
 
dafox said:
I had a 240 (and a 210) semi stainless Gengetsu and have a 240 (and a 210) shirogami Ginga, I sold the Gengetsus because the profile was too flat for me. The profile on the Ginga is pretty much in the middle between a continuous gentle curve and a flat profile, it rocks just fine but does stop a tab bit abruptly when rocking, makes a gentle thwack, it has a small flat spot, no back belly. That being said, I'm looking to get another Gengetsu (210) as I like to push cut more and more.
Just a home cook here with 1 year of J knife experience.
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This is great info! I basically only rock chop for herbs. The gengetsu is sounding better and better

How does the shape compare to the kochi? Can anyone comment on that?
 
The blade I am most likely to pick up first at work 270 yoshikane skd(also within your budget btw).I love the length for most prep. Most days I wouldn't want anything less. That being said, sometimes for line work board space is at a premium so a bit shorter would be a benefit there. Where you do most of your work is something to consider. Prep work 270. Linework or homework 240 or maybe even 210.
 
Ryndunk said:
The blade I am most likely to pick up first at work 270 yoshikane skd(also within your budget btw).I love the length for most prep. Most days I wouldn't want anything less. That being said, sometimes for line work board space is at a premium so a bit shorter would be a benefit there. Where you do most of your work is something to consider. Prep work 270. Linework or homework 240 or maybe even 210.
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That’s what she said!! Lol
 
Gengetsu and Kochi are very similar from what I’ve heard but I don’t have first hand experience with the Gengetsu. From what I’ve heard, the Kochi is thinner behind the edge
 
Ryndunk said:
The blade I am most likely to pick up first at work 270 yoshikane skd(also within your budget btw).I love the length for most prep. Most days I wouldn't want anything less. That being said, sometimes for line work board space is at a premium so a bit shorter would be a benefit there. Where you do most of your work is something to consider. Prep work 270. Linework or homework 240 or maybe even 210.
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Using my 240 tonight. Great knife. Pretty flat profile though (I like the profile but I think OP prefers a curve).
 
Hmm? A curve? Naw, I mean, I think I've decided that I'm going to get a beater knife for rock chopping herbs, and otherwise I don't think any of the styles I use for cutting use much of a curve? Except when I'm using the tip for something, I'm pretty much always trying to keep the blade parallel with the cutting surface. I learned most of my knife skills using a sujihiki, and I never thought it was too flat.
 
No worries, I was talking about rock chopping quite a bit in this thread. This has become a truly confusing thread as well, I admit, in part because of how much I've gone back and forth.

Non-sequitor (should I start a new thread with this question?) In some previous threads, Theory has posted videos of himself chopping parsley in a way that he refers to an homage to Chef Yan. It's almost like he's bouncing the tip and the heel of the blade of off the block, back and forth? What's that called? What exactly is happening there? How does one learn this?
 
Don't know what this is called. To do it place your left index finger on the center of the spine. This will act as a "pivot ". Hold the knife the near the rear of the handle. Push the handle down toward the cutting board to put the blade is on its heel. Lift up the handle so the blade will be tip down heel up. Repeat rapidly. Parsley done!
 
Ok, just tried that and wow... that is so incredibly satisfying! Thank you!
 
sac36555 said:
Gengetsu and Kochi are very similar from what I’ve heard but I don’t have first hand experience with the Gengetsu. From what I’ve heard, the Kochi is thinner behind the edge
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Not sure where you heard this but imo they are completely different knives...you are correct that the Kochi (v2) is thinner behind the edge.
 
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Well, after all that discussion, I have a 270mm KS coming. *ducks*

Soooooo, now- people mentioned stones?
 
I used to use a old boy scout whetstone? Back when I was a scout?
 
The stone being recommended to me at the moment is a King 1000/6000 combo- How far will this take me, if I take up sharpening mainly as a pragmatic task- needs to be done to make sure my tool stays in good condition and performs well?
 
Not the best option IMO. It’ll work pretty ok with the KS because it’s one of the easiest things to sharpen in the intire universe.

Anything outside of W2 and maybe B2 and you’ll run into dying of old age or boredom (which ever comes first) before anything gets sharp. Any SS with a king 1000 will make you question your sanity. You’ll need to find a good psychiatric to start recovering from that experience and that get’s expensive.

So why not look at the little more expensive and better stones and save on the mental ward expenses?

Anything JNS or JKI offers will actually do the oposite and help you find your chi, zen and fengshui all at once. They all come highly recommended all the time.

I’ve used four stones from JKI in a pass around for a couple of weeks and they were a joy to use.

For cheaper thrills the Suehiro Rika 5000 / Cerax 1000 combo from Tools from Japan gets recommended often.
 
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