orangehero
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[video=youtube;5T8Gxk7vbec]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T8Gxk7vbec[/video]
New Kramer Auction
- Thread starter deanb
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Im pretty sure the costs are based on supply and demand. For every kramer knife that sells for 15k theres a mob of people waiting to buy it. Its just a well made knife, made with attention to detail. Theres no reason to believe it cuts any better than a knife that may retail between $400-800. Besides usually the commentary on kramers are about aesthetic things or how stunning they are visually. Ive never heard it discussed how good the grinds are or how thin behind the edge kramers are, edge retention, ease of sharpening or anything else like that. Im not saying kramers dont have good grinds etc etc etc. but i think the price tag most likely reflects some of the labor thats probably much more expensive than other knives to produce and not superior performance.
just seems like another cut brooklyn on a bigger stage to me.
I was reading this post and was thinking exactly same what panda said.
Some people are artists and they apply their art to the knife making instead of canvas. And good art cost lots of money. Usually art is not bought/judged based on it usefulness.
Some people are artists and they apply their art to the knife making instead of canvas. And good art cost lots of money. Usually art is not bought/judged based on it usefulness.
I am not sure I have a dream knife in the true sense of the word - but western Rader with integral bolster (or an integral outdoor knife from Burt Foster) would be close to the top for me. But I would not go beyond 1000 for a knife and will probably stay at around half of that because I do not perceive much gain in value beyond that point even if theoretically I could spend more without putting the economical safety of my family into jeopardy (but probably risking a divorce
)Is was mentioned before - based purely on the performance there is probably not much to gain beyond $800 and probably even quite a bit less.
A handful of members at the old forum had custom Kramer's back when they were merely very expensive. From what I recall, most reviews were very positive. There were quite a few reviews discussing how good the heat treat is, how good the grids are, how thin they are behind the edge, how easily they sharpen and how well they retain that edge. One or two reviewers felt that the unique profile of a Kramer just wasn't for them.
However, Kramer knives sold at auction are collector's pieces. As a master blacksmith he landed a few interviews; to make the stories more interesting the interviewers started calling him the greatest blacksmith in the world and it took off from there. From what I understand, he's still a rather modest man (you listening Murray?) He still has a multi-year wait list for a custom and he could charge much more for them if he wanted, which would certainly price everyone who isn't a wealthy collector out of the market (ok, it's probably already at that point now). Kramer name adds a lot to the price of the knife, but I am confident the exact same knife would be worth $800-$1500 with any other name on it.
I had the honor of talking to him face-to-face at a Sur La Table event a couple years ago. He was very nice and seemed very down-to-earth. He paid his dues, working both in kitchens and as a circus clown in his mis-spent youth. He started learning how to make knives because he could not afford good ones. A lot of the design elements are due to his preferences from his time as a kitchen pro (the very high heel is to get more blade face for scooping up chopped/ diced items). What is most important to him in a knife may not be what is most important to you, but if you hit his lottery you can give him custom specs a la Salty. And if you don't like the knife he makes for you he will make you another. He knows he can raise his prices since the auction knives sell for a lot more then what he charges, but he also wants to make it so more people have the chance to buy his knives. So while $5-6k may seem expensive for a 240 Damascus chef's knife from him, the fact is you can turn around the next day and easily sell it for at least a few thousand $ more. I wore one of my JKS t-shirts to the class, and Bob saw it and asked if that was Dave Martell, then gushed for a few minutes about how great Dave and his sharpening services are. He used to appear on ITK on KF a few times a year (The Seeker), but I don't know if he still visits there on occasion. He is definitely someone I'd love to sit down with for dinner and a few beers.
I think I remember hearing that if your number gets pulled from the lottery and you turn around to sell the knife you're breaking an agreement made with Mr. Kramer. Fairly certain it's a big 'no-no' to do this to him and it will put you on his bad side (rightfully so). It don't feel like it's because of the money, but the principle of the matter.
That being said, when I met Mr. Kramer at the Western State Blacksmithing Conference I found him incredibly humble. Showed up in his Prius, gave an incredible two hour demonstration and then answered questions from the crowd (humbly, even though the questions were pretty inane). After his presentation I had the opportunity to talk to him about his work and what he thought of his situation, he was pretty blown away at the success of it all, as though it even took him by surprise. From talking to him it sounded as though the market drove the prices to where they are; it didn't seem as though there was a concerted effort to inflate the prices of his knives, which is incredible to me.
That being said, when I met Mr. Kramer at the Western State Blacksmithing Conference I found him incredibly humble. Showed up in his Prius, gave an incredible two hour demonstration and then answered questions from the crowd (humbly, even though the questions were pretty inane). After his presentation I had the opportunity to talk to him about his work and what he thought of his situation, he was pretty blown away at the success of it all, as though it even took him by surprise. From talking to him it sounded as though the market drove the prices to where they are; it didn't seem as though there was a concerted effort to inflate the prices of his knives, which is incredible to me.
SpiceOfLife
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Well the lottery itself is a lottery, so it's random chance. People have been waiting for years though. You figure he's 1 man and he can only make so many knives every year, so the odds of 'winning' his lottery aren't that great and there's a lot of people on his list. But some people get lucky!
From Kramer's website: "Because of the huge demand, we cannot guarantee that everyone on the list will be able to order a knife."
His website says the selection process works as such:
"- We select names both chronologically and randomly from our email list regularly.
- If we pull your name, then you get to design your own knife at current pricing (we'll email you).
- The random names are selected using a random number generator."
- Steve
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What was the final price? I missed it
So, blatant capitalism is fine when it works in his favor, eh?
Dave Kinogie
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I mean his knives look stunning and I'd imagine the pics don't do them justice, but maybe 1K to 2K stunning? Need to win the lotto to drop the kind of change on a knife his are going for.
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Final price was $32,100.
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You'd have to bring up your issues with Mr. Kramer. You can't blame him for wanting to protect his brand, though.
brainsausage
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So ridiculous.
brainsausage
Senior Member
I wish my description of status symbols, would be used for a status symbol, and then I could charge 30,000 Kramer's for it.
without registering for anything, is there anyplace that we can see what sold for $32,100?
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Dave Kinogie
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Put the handle from the July 2012 on the profile from March 2012 with the Damascus from April 2012 and now we're talking.
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Profile looks awful. Not that it matters. It will probably never be used.
Erilyn75
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Once a person purchases an item it is then theirs to do with as they wish. Unless there was a signed contract before the purchase there's not much he could do about it. Even then I don't think it would hold up in a court. There's already been court precedence set on such matters.
He can put whatever price tag he wants on his knives, obviously people will pay it. (Though I still don't know why)Bellyaching when someone resells it is just bad form. Makes him look like a whiney baby because he only got $15k and the person sold it for $20k or whatever. Meh...
