Old stone modified for use in modern times?

[Mr.Glum]

Hello.
I have this old stone I kept as a family place was sold. It stood next to an old and rickety lathe and a shelf full of old planes, so I assume it was used to sharpen tools. My great great grandfather was the guy who mainly used the tools there, but some people might have tried making stuff there at a later time. This stone could be hundreds of years old for all I know. It is not flat by any means, so I was thinking I could get someone to cut it perfectly flat P6000 on the underside, and leave most of the used side as is. I would have to cut a bit of either end so it's stable.
Is it doable? It is a sentimental piece, and it would be great to give it some life again. Unfortunatly I don't even know if this is a job any stone mason would even do.

If you cared enough to read through this, thank you. I'm sure it is a stupid question, as well as idea, but I don't know to much about these things.

Best regards, Mr.Glum

 

[Legion74]

Norway..

I guess it could be REALLY old.

If it was me, I would leave it how it is and keep it as a family heirloom, rather than cut it. It looks awesome how it is now.

There are plenty of functional hones in the world, but only one of those. Whatever it is.

 

[1315]

I see both opinions. It could be cut, but it would take pressure and heat applied to a rock that's
stabilized itself over the centuries: What if it broke.........
It's a prized artifact and heirloom, worthy of a museum.

 

[NickMinton]

Another solution is to use an Atoma 140 to help flatten one side or you could rub the rock on the sidewalk to flatten it

 

[Desert Rat]

It's pretty easy with a wet saw. I don't know what it's like in Norway but we have rock shops here that cater to rockhounds and they would cut a stone like that very inexpensively. Laboratories that test core samples will have the same type of saw so they might do it for you also.

 

[cotedupy]

Well that is… one of the coolest things I’ve seen on these forums in a long time!

It could be very, very old indeed. Unless you had records, it’s going to be pretty much impossible to know exactly how old, but at a minimum I would guess 200 years, maximum anything up to about 1,200. And the reason for that (which David hinted at above) is this:

For a period of at least 500 years ‘Norweigan Ragstone’ was the go-to sharpening stone across all of western Europe. Medieval and Dark Age examples have turned up everywhere from the top end of Scandinavia, down to the bottom end of southern Spain. It was a large industry for the time, producing an important trade good. And as we all know; the Vikings got around a bit.

I’ll try to dig out some links about this. But I’ll tell you now, and without a shadow of a doubt, that is an old Norweigan Ragstone. And it looks like quite a large example as well, because they were normally cut smaller so one could carry them around easily. Often with a hole for a leather cord (or whatever) to be threaded through, and then attached to a piece of clothing or even worn around the neck.

 

[cotedupy]

I’m normally one for flattening and using old whetstones, regardless of how unusual they are. In this instance though; I’m not so sure I would.

Heavily concaved sharpening surfaces do have their uses: axes might be one, or certain types of chisel gouge, and spoon carving knives &c. So if the stone were mine I’d probably leave it as is, and just use occasionally for stuff like that.

 

[cotedupy]

 

[cotedupy]

And for a deep dive:

https://bora.uib.no/bora-xmlui/bitstream/handle/11250/3045019/UBAS+13+10+Outland+exploitation+and+long-distance+trade+AD+700-1200.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y


Even just looking at the title of ^that^ paper you know it’s gonna be excellent:

 

[dragjp]

TIL.. Thanks to PO and Oli, can't believe I did read all of that

 

[Desert Rat]

I'm guessing that stone isn't from this quarry?

 

[Mr.Glum]

Thank you so much everyone. I think all of you whom suggested I'd leave it as be, are right. It would be a sad day if it broke, I didn't even think about that. It could be as old as anything, I think it could've just been past on to new owners of the farm over the centuries. It's 14-1500 years, at least, with a settlement there.

I see Mostadmarka quarries is on the map, Cotedupy, which is quite close to where I took the stone from. It could make sense it was from there.

 

[cotedupy]

I see Mostadmarka quarries is on the map, Cotedupy, which is quite close to where I took the stone from. It could make sense it was from there.

Yep, that would make complete sense.

When I was reading back through that paper again last night; I noticed a specific mention that the finer-grained type of Norweigan Ragstone could often have a purple colouration:

Which yours very clearly does (for at least half of it). And apparently that finer-grained, sometimes purple, version was indeed the type that came from… Mostadmarka:

I’d say you can be 99.9% certain that your stone is exactly what they’re talking about in that academic paper.

Very, very cool!

 

[Mr.Glum]

I might have misunderstood something, Cotedupy. The purple coloring on half of my stone, is that not some sort of oil or wax? Or are we talking about two completly different things.

It has been a joy to read through everything posted and written here, I had no clue that ragstones was a big export here for centuries! So interesting and fascinating, thank you for sharing all of this.

I should have included in my first post that the stone is about 14" long, 3" wide, and 5" tall. The shape of it, well, it does not stand stable in any way. That seems a bit odd, no matter how old it is. And the sharpening surface is very concave, maybe too concave to have been worn that way? I don't know much about stones, but would it not form some kind of wear pattern on the underside with that much use?

 

[Corradobrit1]

Fascinating subject. Might have been used to sharpen an Ulfbehrt blade...who knows, but nice to dream.

https://thevikingherald.com/article/why-did-practically-every-viking-own-a-whetstone/326

Love their idea of a bench stone. Imagine what that would cost if it a Maruka stamp...... 2nd mortgage anyone

 

[Legion74]

I might have misunderstood something, Cotedupy. The purple coloring on half of my stone, is that not some sort of oil or wax? Or are we talking about two completly different things.

It has been a joy to read through everything posted and written here, I had no clue that ragstones was a big export here for centuries! So interesting and fascinating, thank you for sharing all of this.

I should have included in my first post that the stone is about 14" long, 3" wide, and 5" tall. The shape of it, well, it does not stand stable in any way. That seems a bit odd, no matter how old it is. And the sharpening surface is very concave, maybe too concave to have been worn that way? I don't know much about stones, but would it not form some kind of wear pattern on the underside with that much use?

It might have been set into a piece of wood as a base or something. A big stone like that, I could imagine it belonging to a butcher, blacksmith or something of that nature, where the hone lived in one spot and the knives were taken to it.

 

[cotedupy]

I might have misunderstood something, Cotedupy. The purple coloring on half of my stone, is that not some sort of oil or wax?

I’m only looking at these pics on a phone, and obviously don’t have it in hand, but I my guess is that the colour is part of the stone.

Firstly - it would be very unusual to just use oil or wax on only half of the surface.

Secondly - The use of oil becomes increasingly uncommon the further north you go in Europe. Around the Mediterranean basin (olive) oil has been used for millennia whilst sharpening. But as soon as olive trees don’t grow; it becomes quite a valuable commodity, and water is far cheaper. There is the potential that tallow might have been used, but again that’s also something quite precious because of its various uses, in particular for; candles, soap, and waterproofing.

3 - It simply looks like the colour is within the stone. As I say - I could be wrong cos I’m looking on a phone, but that’s what it looks like to me.

I should have included in my first post that the stone is about 14" long, 3" wide, and 5" tall. The shape of it, well, it does not stand stable in any way. That seems a bit odd, no matter how old it is. And the sharpening surface is very concave, maybe too concave to have been worn that way? I don't know much about stones, but would it not form some kind of wear pattern on the underside with that much use?

Certainly a big stone, and like David said - probably used whilst set into something, for sharpening larger blades. The level of wear is easily possible for an old stone used in this way. Also remember that back the day; people sharpened things in what we would now consider some quite unusual ways. And very concaved surfaces might have often been quite prized.

It has been a joy to read through everything posted and written here, I had no clue that ragstones was a big export here for centuries! So interesting and fascinating, thank you for sharing all of this

No worries! Glad you’ve found it enlightening. It’s a very interesting thing for the rest of us to see too.

Whilst it may not have a massive amount of monetary value, it obviously has a lot of personal value, and I think historical interest too. As @1315 said above, I’m sure there would be museum curators who would love to put something like that on display.

 

[cotedupy]

Fascinating subject. Might have been used to sharpen an Ulfbehrt blade...who knows, but nice to dream.

https://thevikingherald.com/article/why-did-practically-every-viking-own-a-whetstone/326

Love their idea of a bench stone. Imagine what that would cost if it a Maruka stamp...... 2nd mortgage anyone

@Mr.Glum - the article linked by Corradobrit above is an interview with the lady who wrote the academic paper I linked to.

In the article you can see a picture of a large whetstone fixed in place for use within another piece of stone. Some of the ‘gouge’ type marks on the bottom or sides of your stone may well have something to do with this. (To stop it slipping &c.)

 

[Legion74]

Just learned something today. In old Norse (and some other nearby languages, though with slightly different spelling) Rag means to shear. So ragstones are shear stones, literally speaking.