Open to suggestions on what to start with

[vintage.pt]

Dear all,

The cliché tread i know... sorry for that!
I've been reading through the forums in search for some inspiration on what blades to buy. This is a new world for me, and it seems a quite overwhelming for a newcomer, as i am still catching all the terms, names, etc.
Well, i want to buy my first Yanagi , and would love some of your insights

LOCATION
What country are you in?
PORTUGAL
Almost impossible to find most of the names i read here, but i will buy from Europe stores, or buy overseas (and be ripped of by customs)

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Yanagi and a Deba

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Japanese

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

No less than a 270mm for the yanagi
Maybe 210mm for the Deba

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$250-400 each


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
At home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Sashimi
Slicing beef??
Cutting fish

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
None, although i have a Tojiro Zen Sujihiki 210mm that i bought recently

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Not sure

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
PUSH
SLICING

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Important, as i will not sharp the blades soon

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
Quite important as i never sharpened any knife

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Wood

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Not yet

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes i will

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) m
Yes

Many thanks in advance

Cheers

 

[coffeelover191919]

You're going to want to NOT GET ANY NICE KNIFE until you either learn to sharpen with a cheap knife or commit to learning to sharpen with your new expensive knife.

The best knives in the world do not stay sharp for more than 1 month of daily use. Do you want to spend $250-400 on a knife that'll be dull after some uses?

How about buy a $200 slicer and invest $100 in sharpening stones + 2 hours on youtube

 

[vintage.pt]

You're going to want to NOT GET ANY NICE KNIFE until you either learn to sharpen with a cheap knife or commit to learning to sharpen with your new expensive knife.

The best knives in the world do not stay sharp for more than 1 month of daily use. Do you want to spend $250-400 on a knife that'll be dull after some uses?

How about buy a $200 slicer and invest $100 in sharpening stones + 2 hours on youtube

Seems fair and thought about it also as i do already have a knife for training!
Many thanks for your response

 

[Nemo]

Yanagiba and deba are specialist Japanese single bevel knives. Yanagiba are slicing knives and deba are for filleting fish WITH A SPECIFIC TECHNIQUE that suits the deba's grind and profile. You will need to learn/ adjust to these techniques to use these knives if you are not already familiar with them. I'm not saying "don't do it", just "go in with your eyes open".

Getting a good quality, well finished (and therefore, not cheap) single bevel is important, especially for a beginner, because any faults in the grind (uneven blade road, etc) may be be amplified by a novice sharpener.

They are most often made from simple carbon steels (often white2) which can get ridiculously sharp but edge retention is not usually super.

They need a special sharpening technique, which is fun, and not super difficult to learn (the basics, at least), but is different to double bevel sharpening.

 

[Tristan]

Deba and Yanagiba are very different knives as stated above. I would suggest a BST WTB thread, or pick up something used.
It’ll let you try out the knife and the style of use.
It could also allow you to sharpen a single bevel and get used to it.
Used examples can be quite cheap so I would probably advise you start there

 

[Benuser]

With a single bevel the first sharpening — AKA 'opening' it — is crucial. Find a retailer who is prepared to perform it for you.

 

[Migraine]

With a single bevel the first sharpening — AKA 'opening' it — is crucial. Find a retailer who is prepared to perform it for you.

I don't have any single bevels knives so I've never really looked into the intricacies of it, but I have read this before about the first sharpening. What I don't understand is why the maker doesn't "open" them before selling. Is there a reason?

 

[vintage.pt]

Many thanks guys. You helped a lot!

Cheers

 

[vintage.pt]

I don't have any single bevels knives so I've never really looked into the intricacies of it, but I have read this before about the first sharpening. What I don't understand is why the maker doesn't "open" them before selling. Is there a reason?

Indeed... Strange behaviour but i'm sure there's an explanation

 

[Blerghle]

I don't have any single bevels knives so I've never really looked into the intricacies of it, but I have read this before about the first sharpening. What I don't understand is why the maker doesn't "open" them before selling. Is there a reason?

My understanding is that there is an assumption the end user will want to put his or her preferred edge on there - some people prefer a flat edge, some a hamuragiba/clamshell edge, etc. There's a greater presumption of expertise than for, say, a santoku probably being bought by a home cook, I think.

 

[Benuser]

I don't have any single bevels knives so I've never really looked into the intricacies of it, but I have read this before about the first sharpening. What I don't understand is why the maker doesn't "open" them before selling. Is there a reason?

Traditionally, knives were being delivered unsharpened, as the end-user was supposed to do it himself — or at his costs, the retailer.
A maker won't do a surplus of work he has to charge for if the end-user will change it anyway.

 

[Famima]

Couple of suggestions for you:

1. Start with a Deba. You have a sujihiki, so you already have a tool that can slice fish - the deba gets you started with filleting japanese style (as @Nemo says, it's a very different technique). Pick up the yanagiba later, because this is a harder knife to sharpen and also quite a bit more expensive for decent quality.

2. Think about the length... a 210mm deba is a large knife. What fish do you usually prepare? For typical home use, 150/165/180mm is likely going to be the right answer. E.g. 1 150 or 165 will easy cover snapper, bream/besugo, bass/robalo, hake up to 1-1.5kg. 180mm for smaller large fish e.g. salmon say up to 3-4kg.

3. I agree with @Nemo, get a decent knife, because cheap ones have issues that make your life much harder when sharpening. Sharpening is different but easy to learn the basics - you will need to learn to sharpen pretty much from the beginning to keep the edge in shape, so I would order some stones straight away too.

4. Something like this: Sakai Takayuki Tokujou Deba 165mm (6.5 is probably ideal (note the price is in Aussie dollars!)

Hope this helps!

 

[vintage.pt]

Couple of suggestions for you:

1. Start with a Deba. You have a sujihiki, so you already have a tool that can slice fish - the deba gets you started with filleting japanese style (as @Nemo says, it's a very different technique). Pick up the yanagiba later, because this is a harder knife to sharpen and also quite a bit more expensive for decent quality.

2. Think about the length... a 210mm deba is a large knife. What fish do you usually prepare? For typical home use, 150/165/180mm is likely going to be the right answer. E.g. 1 150 or 165 will easy cover snapper, bream/besugo, bass/robalo, hake up to 1-1.5kg. 180mm for smaller large fish e.g. salmon say up to 3-4kg.

3. I agree with @Nemo, get a decent knife, because cheap ones have issues that make your life much harder when sharpening. Sharpening is different but easy to learn the basics - you will need to learn to sharpen pretty much from the beginning to keep the edge in shape, so I would order some stones straight away too.

4. Something like this: Sakai Takayuki Tokujou Deba 165mm (6.5 is probably ideal (note the price is in Aussie dollars!)

Hope this helps!

Many thanks Famina, i will follow you suggestion and will buy a Deba. I usually catch Snappers, Sea Bass and Gilted Bream and Bonito, so i guess 165 or 180.

Thanks for the suggestion also. I was thinking Watanabe but this is more affordable

Cheers