Overwhelmed Newbie Needing Help with First Gyuto, Stones, and End Grain Block

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Also that knife you will outgrow will be a great beater when you need to perform the dirty jobs that you wish to avoid with its replacement.

Let the second or third knife be fancy smancy with the ohhs and ahhs.
 
valgard said:
Fat chance u will not want another one, might as well start with something you are not afraid to f*** up while learning to sharpen. Also will allow you to better appreciate what characteristics you value in the knife and better enjoy the next level. My $0.02.
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I appreciate your thoughts and am considering this option, though right now I am still leaning toward getting one of the Sukenari's and getting another type of knife to work on my sharpening skills.

I asked about getting another type that would be cheap, handy and good for sharpening practice and so far have the recommendation of a cleaver.

Any other recommendations?
Would the cleaver be good for breaking down a whole chicken?
What are cleavers generally used for?
 
Traditionally cleavers all all purpose or general purpose Chinese cooking knives. They can very in size and weight depending on desires but for the most part work the same. Most common tasks are lots of chopping.

As a warning, cleavers tend to be a love em or hate him tool and nobody knows what camp they will fall into until they are forced to use one for a couple weeks.

If you can borrow one that would be great but I was about 8 knive in before I aquired one. You can get inexpensive cleavers at asian grocery stores and it wont hurt your wallet if you discover they are not your flavor.
 
Martin Yan would disagree.

[video=youtube;h7m4XAVmFFI]https://youtube/h7m4XAVmFFI&feature=related[/video]
 
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valgard said:
Fat chance u will not want another one, might as well start with something you are not afraid to f*** up while learning to sharpen. Also will allow you to better appreciate what characteristics you value in the knife and better enjoy the next level. My $0.02.
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Some truth bombs being dropped here imho
 
I use my SUIEN vc CLEAVER on whole chickens regularly..... just like Martin yan .
(but much slower for safety)
with no problem. :moonwalk:
 
here's my take.
you obviously find knives interesting enough to be engaged rather well in this thread, good for you. It means you are already infected, lol.
So lets not play it safe.
my advice is to buy a good knife in the sweetspot as @Nemo mentioned because you will not out grow it and it will always be a desirable knife with all the positive attributes you will expect in a top shelf, hand made blade. Plus, were talking about only an extra 100 dollars or so from a more budget minded piece, that will not hold its own once you start expanding your tastes and desires.

As for practice knife, hell, you go to the thriftstore and buy an old rusty carbon blade for pennies and have fun. And as far as ruining your good blade while learning to sharpen, well, I don't think that will happen. you have to take a whole lot of metal off of a Gyuto before it would be considered ruined, especially if you go with a 1-2k stone as our resident soothsayer @Chef Doom recommended.
Cheers.
 
Where the honesuki really shines vs a more "western" style boning knife is with hanging butchery. Although I can't say I've hung a bird for breakdown in my kitchen, the tip of the honesuki is unparalleled (IMO) when it comes to maneuverability in between joints and inside the hip area where the "oyster" piece of delicious dark meat resides.

Either the munetoshi butcher or a honesuki will be serviceable boning knives, the munetoshi will be more versatile however.

Might as well get both! 🤣
 
@aaamax I wish I could have found cheap carbon blades at local discount stores easily. 99% is stainless. I'm not knocking stainless, just wish there was more variety.
 
I have a few boning knives and love using honesuki's to break down chickens. The munetoshi has the same general profile, maybe slightly sturdier. I'm sure it would work just as well.

While cleavers would also be fine for breaking down chickens, you'd have to find one suited for that purpose. The sharper veggie cleavers might not be the best choice.
 
Once again, thank you for all the great information and advice.

I am still in the process of getting everything.

So far I have gotten the Gesshin stone set flattening plate, bridge, and stoneholder from jki, as well as a Cambro food pan.

I will soon get a Hinoki board for proteins
and a Boardsmith Walnut/ Cherry Border Board 2″ x 16″ x 22″ (or one like I see on their fb page with walnut, cherry, and maple) for everything else.

For the knife...

There are very good posts in this thread arguing between getting an inexpensive gyuto for now before moving on to something else and getting a nicer knife now.

Aaamax's thoughts speak to me the most about foregoing the entry level route. I have revisited the knives in this post and think I have I narrowed down to two.

Sukenari R2

Tanaka Ginsan Nashiji

I originally removed the Tanaka Ginsan from the list based on James' feedback about it not being great for newbies but I see it recommended for newbies as a great value and performer quite often.

Should I keep it off the list/is it much more likely to chip than the Sukenari?

How will these two compare performance-wise?

Are they close enough in ease of sharpening that it should not be a consideration?

How do they compare with respect feel on the stones?

Etc.
 
Did James mention that a R2 steel gyuto would suit a beginner better over ginsanko or was it the more about the grind of the knives? I have no experience with Sukenari knives, but I own two R2 gyutos and two ginsan gyutos and I've never had any chipping issues with any of them. In that regard both should be fine.

The Sukenari might be thicker behind the edge for durability, but that will come in the expense of cutting performance. It's always a compromise between different properties. Which trait is more important to you considering your cutting style? Pure performance or durability?

Ginsanko is nicer on the stones a little easier too, but R2 is not that difficult to sharpen either. Ginsan will hold on to a fresh edge quite a while longer, but R2 will hold on to an ok edge for longer over all. Again either would be fine.

I like ginsanko steel more, but R2 is fun too.
 
I never had a Ginsan piece to compare with, but I think with a proper micro-bevel R2 would hold a sharp edge longer the Ginsan. The high-carbide PM steels don't have the edge stability of conventional steels, but the micro-bevel takes care of that, and with the very fine carbides of R2 only little max sharp is lost with the MB. Max sharp dosen't hold up to the board anyway, strictly for razors, sashimi and cutting in hand.
 
JaVa said:
Did James mention that a R2 steel gyuto would suit a beginner better over ginsanko or was it the more about the grind of the knives?
Click to expand...

It is because of the grind. He said the Tanaka is very thin behind the edge and will "chip if you don't have good experience with it."
 
I'd say don't fret a thin edge. Just don't twist it on the board, or do anything to cause it to slam down hard. Take it slow at first and develop good technique. Do the rough stuff with your current knife, and maybe enjoy thinning it a bit while learning sharpening.
 
SurlyBastage said:
It is because of the grind. He said the Tanaka is very thin behind the edge and will "chip if you don't have good experience with it."
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I was asking similar questions last summer. I wanted one nice knife. I didn't want to start with a tester to outgrow, and I knew I'd look after whatever I bought. I went with the Tanaka Ginsan Nashiji Lite, and I've not had a chip (it would be weird if I did, I'm gentle with it). I did start with it on my silicon chopping board, and I immediately stopped because the blade seemed to sink into the board, so I now only use it on wooden chopping boards (not tried rubber).

I'm really happy with it. I'd probably like the belly to be flatter, as I like to push, pull and chop without much rocking, but that's all.

I haven't yet succumbed to extra knives, but I will in time.

There are plenty of other good options, like the Itinomonn Kasumi (although a bit expensive at the moment I think), or the Tanaka B2 nashiji (SS clad carbon). Also JKI offerings that I didn't consider as I'm in the UK.
 
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