PPE Q

[ian]

Does one know when one’s PPE is sufficient? I’m using a half mask at the moment with my little grinder and I don’t feel like I’m breathing in metal dust. I have no beard and it fits securely and it’s not too hot (thank you winter!) or uncomfortable. I notice that most professionals here are using PAPR, but I’m not sure if that’s more for comfort, since they’re doing it all damn day, or because they have beards and need a looser fit. I guess my question is whether part of the equation is filtering out very tiny amounts of stuff that might get past a half mask, and may cause problems over time even if you don’t notice it in use.

Or maybe this is a stupid question and the real question is how much risk one is willing to tolerate vs how much you want to spend on a mask...

 

[Yet-Another-Dave]

How do you know? What health problems do you face in 20+ years?

How do I judge? I try to go with reputable manufacturers' certified data. E.g. 3M publishes what each filter is supposed to filter, for how long, etc. and has to pass OSHA (& other) certification tests. With the right filters that aren't clogged, I'm pretty sure you are fine in a well fitting half mask. (While not the full OSHA industrial fitting procedure, you can remove the filters & block the fittings and see if inhaling pulls air passed the mask (bad) or not (good) with my 3M mask. Something like that will improve your confidence you are operating close to the spec protection.)

 

[ModRQC]

I don’t feel like I’m breathing in metal dust.

Are you sure? Only on your latest avatar pic you don't look so healthy, if happy?

 

[inferno]

if you put on any rubber lined half mask, with activated charcoal you will not breathe in anything. definitely not solids, like steel.

 

[branwell]

Safety, my pet peeve.

No one wants to give advice that isn't safe but jeees, life isn't safe. Name a single person that survived it? Ever? and I'll buy you a beer

With things like metal dust, sure, there are edge cases, people who where susceptible, breathed that stuff for years, and eventually had raspatory issues but the reality is, through all the other crap in forges, the vast majority of people didn't, and that was before masks and respirator's became the rage. Go on youtube and look up Japanese Bladesmiths. Look at how many of them are covered in black stuff and are older than trees. Heck, if you where weird enough, you could make the argument that that black stuff is the font of life.

So, my BAD advice, assuming you aren't a full time maker grinding a bunch of knives a day, don't worry about it. Got a bandana, use that. Got a painters mask, use that. Got a hermetically sealed suit, use that. Got nothing......

Eyez on the other hand. Eyz are pretty squishy. Fast moving sanding grit will make quick work of that. Big believer in some sort of glasses.

 

[ian]

So, my BAD advice, assuming you aren't a full time maker grinding a bunch of knives a day, don't worry about it. Got a bandana, use that. Got a painters mask, use that. Got a hermetically sealed suit, use that. Got nothing......

I used a cloth mask the first time and I could definitely feel that I was breathing in dust, although it was much better than nothing. Half mask is cheap and effective, though.

 

[McMan]

Start smoking. It will form a protective barrier.

 

[big_adventure]

From what I remember doing both lab work and a little metal work on car parts way back in the olden times, test like @Yet-Another-Dave mentioned above. If air isn't getting past the mask around the edge or the filters, it's not getting into your lungs. Good eye protection, and you're probably sorted.

 

[inferno]

on many industruial grinders there is a built in vacuum cleaner that is driven by a separate motor.
this type is very common. there are many makers of this type.

 

[SeattleB]

Safety, my pet peeve.

No one wants to give advice that isn't safe but jeees, life isn't safe. Name a single person that survived it? Ever? and I'll buy you a beer

Yep, everyone dies eventually. Until then, some live better than others depending on their choices.

 

[branwell]

Or, get a bigger room where the dust cant get at ya.

 

[billyO]

Does one know when one’s PPE is sufficient?

From a breathing perspective, if you can smell it or taste it, it's getting into your lungs. If at the end of the day you blow your nose and your handkerchief is black, you're not filtering enough. If you cough up a loogie with dark steaks in it, you're not filtering enough.

 

[SeattleB]

Does one know when one’s PPE is sufficient?

I've only done woodworking rather than metalworking, but my answer is: when I'm using a NIOSH mask approved for the application and I have the shop vacuum system positioned properly.

 

[Staystrapped]

The handle material grinding is what gets me.. I wear a full mask while doing it.

 

[RDalman]

As long as you're not doing fulltime and feel that mask filters well enough
It can be exerting on the lungs to breathe through them all day, they're not meant to be used more than shorter shifts. I think we will be seeing this have taken a toll on the healthcare workers in these for long hours during covid.
When I changed to papr it was like getting one or two days extra productivity per week.

 

[Pointless1]

As someone who used to deal with the stuff that fire hazmat wouldn’t touch, I will say as much PPE as you can handle. As a simple fit test, the recommendations above are good. If particle are the concern, N95 or better. If chemicals are present, add the appropriate filter. Eye protection always. Appropriate ventilation is the next thing to look at, whether a highfalutin (is this still a word?) filtration system or basic open windows and fans.

Then ask yourself what risk you’re comfortable with. Yes, there are great images of people making beautiful knives with no protection, and they are ancient. Doesn’t mean you’re not the dude who’s going to do it twice and either end up with a chemical sensitivity or respiratory illness.

I’m the first to admit I often “forget” the right PPE for one reason or another, but it doesn’t make me smart. Just lazy and stupid.

<<rant off>>

 

[ian]

I’m the first to admit I often “forget” the right PPE for one reason or another, but it doesn’t make me smart. Just lazy and stupid.

My version of this is that I always “forget” to tape off parts of the blade I’m not working on, because I can just “be careful and not hit those areas”.

 

[Pointless1]

My version of this is that I always “forget” to tape off parts of the blade I’m not working on, because I can just “be careful and not hit those areas”.

Been there. Especially risky the more power the tool has...

 

[DavidPF]

highfalutin (is this still a word?)

Yes it is, but it's had new restrictions placed on it, because it's been proven to fail repeatedly on hearers under the age of about 55 or 60. No one is sure why.