Price vs. Performance vs. Preference

[mikedtran]

I would love to get everyones thoughts on how they current evaluate knives and what they want next?

I would say from my 'limited' experience with knives I have actually found that Price and Performance are not correlated.

My best two performers?
1. Dan Prendergast (<$300)
2. Wakui (<$180)

These are literally my two cheapest knives I currently own.

When I think about a knife I evaluate on a couple areas broken into two major categories (probably missing a couple, but these are top of mind)

Performance
-Pressure to cut
-Drag
-Food release
-Edge retention

Artistry/Workmanship/Other:
-Damascus/Hamon
-Design/Aesthetic
-Finish
-Rarity
-Story/History
-Handle

 

[K813zra]

As a home cook that cooks for two people I may define performance differently than others. For example, the one thing I do not like about some knives, particularly lasers, is that they simply give less feedback while in action. What I mean to say is that I can not feel them doing anything, they just glide through. I find the same to be true for high grit edges. That however, may have less to do with performance and more to do with poor to fair cutting skills, at best. I can put a good edge on a knife, one that tickles my fancy but that does not necessarily mean that I wield the beast correctly after doing so. As such, I guess what I am trying to say that for me performance may be more of a subjective thing that is more along the lines of preference.

That said, I would have to go with preference then price then performance as it is judged by others.

So what I look for when making a purchase is in the order listed below.

-Ergonomics: It has to be comfortable but there are things that can be adjusted such as sharp spines, that is easy. I prefer D-shaped ho wood with horn followed by oval of the same. I prefer the neck be elongated or rather I do not like the handle to but up to the blade because I like room to wrap my middle finer around the neck itself.

-Food release: While I am not overly picky there are some blades out there that just irritate me to no end. A potato welded to the blade drives me crazy. So food release has to be at least okay. If I can wipe the stuff off the blade, then I have no complaint. If I have to pry, that is a problem.

-Pressure to cut: While I do like to have to apply a little force this is typically something I like to adjust with the edge. However, I like heavy blades that are forward waited, this seems to mesh well with the amount of pressure that I want to apply.

-Blade finish/style: I prefer KU finished blades but if I can not have them then some other sort of rough finish is fine. No Damascus or anything fancy like that.

-I guess I will put price here because it really is not a concern of price. Some of my favorite blades are the cheapest that I own but that does not mean that I will not pay for something that interests me if it requires more coin.

-Edge retention, drag, rarity etc does not matter to me.

I guess that about sums up how I chose a blade, for whatever it is worth and from my own limited experience.

 

[Nemo]

In "performance", I would add "profile" as this significantly affects both cutting technique and versatility.

Also, don't overlook sharpening performance and edge retention, both of which are related to the steel chosen but even more importantly, the HT.

The other aspects of performance listed are also affected by cutting technique.

There is also generally a trade off between pressure to cut (I assume that this is the opposite of "wedging" ) and food release. So one knife might not wedge much at all but have poor food release while the next has excellent food release but is a bit wedgey. Some grinds will optimise this tradeoff while others will have the worst of both words.

I guess what I'm saying is that different knives are good at different things (I think the Japanese hav a saying which translates roughly as "one knife, one purpose" ) and the performance can be optimised one way or the other. And this is a good thing. Otherwise I would have only 3 knives and that would be sad &#129300;

My mental image is that the things which can contribute into the cost of a knife are:
The steel.
The labour and knowledge that goes into forging and HT it.
The failure rate (especially for honyaki)
The labour and knowledge that goes into any fancy blade features such as damascus.
The labour and knowledge that goes into optimising the grind.
The cost of the handle materials.
The labour and knowledge that goes into making the handle.
The labour that goes into rounding the spine and choil and optimising F&F.
Economies of scale (smaller producers probably cost more).
Rareness or reputation of a knife may inflate the price.

Most of these costs are labour costs.

Of course, it is possible to spend a lot of time on making a knife but still end up with a bad knife, so you do need to choose a good maker.

But you also need to choose a knife that does what you want it to. Or to chose a knife which is quite different to what you are used to and maybe learn new thechniques but also gain an appreciation of what the benefits of different grind features are.

For example, when I first used workhorse grinds, the relative thickness behind the edge was confronting. However I quickly realized that they will get through a lot of food very quickly. This did require an adjustment in my technique but also made my knife skills better and broadened my horizons.

 

[TimoNieminen]

Performance
-Ergonomics
-Pressure to cut
-Drag
-Food release
-Edge retention
-Corrosion resistance

Artistry/Workmanship/Other:
-Design/Aesthetic
-Story/History
-Price/Value

I have bought knives because they looked interesting or cute (design/aesthetic). I have bought knives because of what they are (e.g., Korean, Thai, replica Medieval European); if not for the story/history behind the design, I might not have bought them.

While I have plenty of carbon steel, stainless can be useful when I'd prefer to clean up later rather than immediately. Definitely a functional advantage, but can require compromise in other functional/other aspects.

 

[Mucho Bocho]

Really insightful thread. Very well articulated. Might be good enough for a sticky. K813zra, Nemo and Tim I absolutely concur.

 

[malexthekid]

For me, since I am a home cook and this really is my hobby i put tend to or higher value on custom makers and design aspects.

While i want to try lots of the " cheaper" performance blades I can't justify having that number of knives or churn (funnily my wife laments this hobby but she disagrees with the buy/sell argument and says if you are going to buy another buy it to keep).

So I tend to focus on aesthetics that i like. Be it damascus, honyaki, handle or profile. and pick makers with proven track record of performance. I let them did their thing on the performance side and i put some input into the aesthetics

 

[XooMG]

I'm very petty. I like to think I value performance, but despite my reluctance and relative lack of tools to refinish, I am able to adjust a knife's geometry manually. That complicates things somewhat, but of course many of us will eventually be forced to modify geometry for the sake of thinning/maintenance.

So I need to ask what I value in the knife and how much I value it, to make it worthy of the secondary work. As a result, I might appear fickle.

It must be heat treated reasonably well, so that it handles the edge I like.
The geometry should at least be in the neighborhood of what I want, and optimally the grind should be consistent enough to be stone friendly.
The profile should be something I enjoy using.
The handle and fit/finish matters a little, but it usually scales with price for me.

I also care about silly things like if I have a poor relationship with the maker, or if the resale value will be destroyed through modification, or whether I have time to modify the knife or whether abandoning a project and seeking something more compatible is best.

 

[panda]

#1 shape, #2 steel performance (with ease of sharpening at the top of the desirable properties list), #3 grind, #4 price and fit must be reasonable. finish is not important to me, neither is handle but i strongly prefer plain d shape ones. artistry, story, rarity and all that other non functional mumbo jumbo i could give two sh*ts about. that being said, if i could afford to, my entire kit would be white steel honyaki's, custom heiji's and stuff made from tamahagane. and they would all have burnt chestnut buffalo horn D shape handles.

1 & 2 are critical, 3 & 4 are less so.

 

[TheCaptain]

#1 shape, #2 steel performance (with ease of sharpening at the top of the desirable properties list), #3 grind, #4 price and fit must be reasonable. finish is not important to me, neither is handle but i strongly prefer plain d shape ones. artistry, story, rarity and all that other non functional mumbo jumbo i could give two sh*ts about. that being said, if i could afford to, my entire kit would be white steel honyaki's, custom heiji's and stuff made from tamahagane. and they would all have burnt chestnut buffalo horn D shape handles.

1 & 2 are critical, 3 & 4 are less so.

+1

Spot on

 

[tsuriru]

:thankyou:

This is a great thread.