Question about a Lamson Chinese Cleaver

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

altaiga

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2024
Messages
53
Reaction score
24
Location
North America
I got a Lamson Chinese cleaver, which looks different from any Lamson Chinese Cleavers that I have seen online. I wonder if anyone has the knowledge to identify this particular cleaver, in terms of its era of production or any other relevant info. The blade does not really have any distal taper, so I assume it is stainless steel. However, the blade is ground quite thin. I'd say thinner compared to contemporary Lamson Chinese cleaver, judging from images of the latter. The handle design is noticeably different from contemporary ones as well. Otherwise, the markings on the blade seem identical to the contemporary ones. Thanks for any info.
 

Attachments

  • lamson.jpeg
    lamson.jpeg
    3 MB
It was made relatively recently. It has a little bit different markings/brandings but the same model number (33060) is currently sold by Lamson for 79.99. these are made in the USA. Stainless monosteel. Very basic chunky cleaver.




I don't think any of those cleavers have any relationship to each other or to the OPs.
 
Thank you for the input. The blade appears to be quite thin, compared to contemporary Lamson Chinese Cleaver. Please find attached choil shots. Also, the connecting metal piece between the blade and the handle is completely different from the contemporary version. Thus my question.
 

Attachments

  • lamson1.jpeg
    lamson1.jpeg
    1.3 MB
  • lamson2.jpeg
    lamson2.jpeg
    1.4 MB
  • lamson3.jpeg
    lamson3.jpeg
    1.4 MB
Thank you for the input. The blade appears to be quite thin, compared to contemporary Lamson Chinese Cleaver. Please find attached choil shots. Also, the connecting metal piece between the blade and the handle is completely different from the contemporary version. Thus my question.

I don't know anything more than looking up the model number and seeing it has been produced for a long time. There is probably variation both unit to unit and over time. If you like the one you have then you should hold onto it and cherish it.
 
It's just general curiosity, as I noticed that the Lamson Cleavers tend to be quite thick, so I wonder why this one is ground so thin. Will probably keep it because it seems like a decent cleaver for its size.
 
And the handle is also very different from the pictures of the same model that I've seen online.
 
I don't have a lot of American made cleavers to compare, but I'm surprised that this American made Chinese cleaver actually has the proper full flat grind resembling CCK stainless slicers. Not sure how common it is for American OEMs to make Chinese cleavers this way, such as Dexter, etc.
 
So after decades of exporting production to China and having them them rip off western IP we've finally come full circle and are seeing US made versions of Chinese ideas... Lamson is leading the countercharge!
 
So after decades of exporting production to China and having them them rip off western IP we've finally come full circle and are seeing US made versions of Chinese ideas... Lamson is leading the countercharge!

Dexter has been doing this for decades. They have several different models from thin slicers to serious bone cleavers. Carbon or stainless. And really in the pro kitchens I have worked in (some of them with many Asian descent folks and other random rectangle fanatics), Dexters outnumber CCKs ten to one. Maybe at the bougie places line cooks are carrying CCKs. But they are really quite expensive if you are a typical line cook. Lamson doesn't have nearly the market share or reputation of either.
 
For a Chinese cleaver maker, thickness or grinding method is not a problem but a choice. It's quite normal to produce small batches of unusual blades sometimes. Chinese cleavers may all look rectangular, but the details can vary greatly. To meet the needs of different customers, it’s normal to produce small batches of uncommon knives. Since these are small batches, it's also normal to find limited information available.
This is even more common for hand forgers. Recently, I made three knives: one customer needed a thickness from 3mm to 1.5mm to 0.9mm, another needed from 3mm to 2mm, and one didn't require any tapering. The edge grinding methods were entirely different for each, as were the surface treatments and handles. It's like a buffet.
In China, there are many different schools of thought on how chefs use their knives. This is a market of 1.4 billion people, and the needs of different schools vary greatly. The most extreme knife I've made had an 8mm thick spine, but the cross-section was T-shaped, narrowing quickly, with the lower half designed as a very thin slicing knife. I remember this was a custom order for a chef from the Sichuan school. This type of knife is rare in other schools. Actually, CCK knives are representative of the Hong Kong style in Cantonese cuisine.

The popularity of CCK in Western markets is largely because Hong Kong's culinary industry has long represented Chinese cuisine in the West. As a knife supplier from Hong Kong, CCK knives followed Hong Kong chefs around the world. In reality, Chinese culinary schools are very diverse, with many interesting knife types to explore. It's quite fascinating.
IMG_20240626_001951.jpg
IMG_20240619_153541.jpg
 
Last edited:
So after decades of exporting production to China and having them them rip off western IP we've finally come full circle and are seeing US made versions of Chinese ideas... Lamson is leading the countercharge!
Actually, human history is full of such circles. It's called technological transfer. Gun powder, for example, originated in the East, and was brought to Europe through the expansion of the Mongol empire. The Mongols combined technologies from China and the Middle East to create powerful weapons to shatter thick city walls. Several hundred years later, the Europeans used the perfected gun powder technology that the Mongols used to conquer Eurasia to conquer the world. Such processes are necessary for continued innovation and technological advancement. Even in arts, supposedly highly personal, original, and expressive, similar processes apply, as Steve Jobs famously said: "a good artist copies, but a great artist steals."
 
For a Chinese cleaver maker, thickness or grinding method is not a problem but a choice. It's quite normal to produce small batches of unusual blades sometimes. Chinese cleavers may all look rectangular, but the details can vary greatly. To meet the needs of different customers, it’s normal to produce small batches of uncommon knives. Since these are small batches, it's also normal to find limited information available.
This is even more common for hand forgers. Recently, I made three knives: one customer needed a thickness from 3mm to 1.5mm to 0.9mm, another needed from 3mm to 2mm, and one didn't require any tapering. The edge grinding methods were entirely different for each, as were the surface treatments and handles. It's like a buffet.
In China, there are many different schools of thought on how chefs use their knives. This is a market of 1.4 billion people, and the needs of different schools vary greatly. The most extreme knife I've made had an 8mm thick spine, but the cross-section was T-shaped, narrowing quickly, with the lower half designed as a very thin slicing knife. I remember this was a custom order for a chef from the Sichuan school. This type of knife is rare in other schools. Actually, CCK knives are representative of the Hong Kong style in Cantonese cuisine.

The popularity of CCK in Western markets is largely because Hong Kong's culinary industry has long represented Chinese cuisine in the West. As a knife supplier from Hong Kong, CCK knives followed Hong Kong chefs around the world. In reality, Chinese culinary schools are very diverse, with many interesting knife types to explore. It's quite fascinating.
View attachment 331109View attachment 331110

That's what fascinates me about Chinese cleavers, they all look deceptively similar, but actually can be quite different. Among all types of knives I have used, the Chinese cleavers are the most versatile in my user experience. It's just very utilitarian: one knife does it all.
 
Dexter has been doing this for decades. They have several different models from thin slicers to serious bone cleavers. Carbon or stainless. And really in the pro kitchens I have worked in (some of them with many Asian descent folks and other random rectangle fanatics), Dexters outnumber CCKs ten to one. Maybe at the bougie places line cooks are carrying CCKs. But they are really quite expensive if you are a typical line cook. Lamson doesn't have nearly the market share or reputation of either.
Dexter seems to be quite thick behind the edge, though. Probably an intentional design to make it more of a beater than a pure slicer. CCK, in contrast, caters to the Cantonese style of professional cooking, which demands a thinner grind by the professionals. As @bill_zeng correctly points out, there are various culinary schools in China and they require different blade geometries to suite the preferences of the professionals in those schools.
 
Last edited:
For a Chinese cleaver maker, thickness or grinding method is not a problem but a choice. It's quite normal to produce small batches of unusual blades sometimes. Chinese cleavers may all look rectangular, but the details can vary greatly. To meet the needs of different customers, it’s normal to produce small batches of uncommon knives. Since these are small batches, it's also normal to find limited information available.
This is even more common for hand forgers. Recently, I made three knives: one customer needed a thickness from 3mm to 1.5mm to 0.9mm, another needed from 3mm to 2mm, and one didn't require any tapering. The edge grinding methods were entirely different for each, as were the surface treatments and handles. It's like a buffet.
In China, there are many different schools of thought on how chefs use their knives. This is a market of 1.4 billion people, and the needs of different schools vary greatly. The most extreme knife I've made had an 8mm thick spine, but the cross-section was T-shaped, narrowing quickly, with the lower half designed as a very thin slicing knife. I remember this was a custom order for a chef from the Sichuan school. This type of knife is rare in other schools. Actually, CCK knives are representative of the Hong Kong style in Cantonese cuisine.

The popularity of CCK in Western markets is largely because Hong Kong's culinary industry has long represented Chinese cuisine in the West. As a knife supplier from Hong Kong, CCK knives followed Hong Kong chefs around the world. In reality, Chinese culinary schools are very diverse, with many interesting knife types to explore. It's quite fascinating.
View attachment 331109View attachment 331110
Not sure about HK specifically but definitely Cantonese. First diaspora (Transcontinental Railroad and Chinese Exclusion Act) are pretty much all Cantonese. Can even get specific down to the village level. I actually talked with my dad about this a couple of days ago (he came through HK) where he describes the 'selling pigs' period in history. Sad stuff.
 
Last edited:
Dexter seems to be quite thick behind the edge, though. Probably an intentional design to make it more of a beater than a pure slicer. CCK, in contrast, caters to the Cantonese style of professional cooking, which demands a thinner grind by the professionals. As @bill_zeng correctly points out, there are various culinary schools in China and they require different blade geometries to suite the preferences of the professionals in those schools.
Some (definitely not all) just grind down the Dexters, lol. One knife is tricky because this necessitates grinds that can handle bone and these really aren't great for stuff like potato threads. I grew up in restaurants and we always had many different knives of various thicknesses (all started as the same WinCo, lol) so my experience may or may not reflect broader experience. It's a chicken and the egg kind of thing, imo. Recipes and traditions develop around the available tools and resources.
 
Last edited:
For a Chinese cleaver maker, thickness or grinding method is not a problem but a choice. It's quite normal to produce small batches of unusual blades sometimes. Chinese cleavers may all look rectangular, but the details can vary greatly. To meet the needs of different customers, it’s normal to produce small batches of uncommon knives. Since these are small batches, it's also normal to find limited information available.
This is even more common for hand forgers. Recently, I made three knives: one customer needed a thickness from 3mm to 1.5mm to 0.9mm, another needed from 3mm to 2mm, and one didn't require any tapering. The edge grinding methods were entirely different for each, as were the surface treatments and handles. It's like a buffet.
In China, there are many different schools of thought on how chefs use their knives. This is a market of 1.4 billion people, and the needs of different schools vary greatly. The most extreme knife I've made had an 8mm thick spine, but the cross-section was T-shaped, narrowing quickly, with the lower half designed as a very thin slicing knife. I remember this was a custom order for a chef from the Sichuan school. This type of knife is rare in other schools. Actually, CCK knives are representative of the Hong Kong style in Cantonese cuisine.

The popularity of CCK in Western markets is largely because Hong Kong's culinary industry has long represented Chinese cuisine in the West. As a knife supplier from Hong Kong, CCK knives followed Hong Kong chefs around the world. In reality, Chinese culinary schools are very diverse, with many interesting knife types to explore. It's quite fascinating.
View attachment 331109View attachment 331110
Nice work! Are you a knife maker based in Canton? Canton seems to have some of the most well-known Chinese cleaver makers and factories, including CCK since the 2000s. On a side note, I wonder if the CCK's quality has changed since the shift of production from Hong Kong to Canton. This seems to be a popular sentiment, albeit not empirically verified, that the Hong Kong produced CCKs have better steel, etc.. I actually have a CCK #2 carbon slicer from the 1980s, and it is ground kind of thick, certainly not the fully flat grind with some convexity that they are known for. The handle was also a bit defective. Maybe it was just variation of different batches. I also noticed some hard-to-remove whitish surface coating on the blade, maybe to prevent rust, which I do not see on contemporary CCK carbons.
 
Last edited:
Nice works! Are you a knife maker based in Canton? Canton seems to have some of the most well-known knife makers and factories.

We are a small workshop in Guangdong. Guangdong is home to many well-known kitchen knife manufacturers. However, due to the demands of regular customers, most famous knife manufacturers have now abandoned handcrafted products in favor of industrial mass production.
 
As an insider in the knife-making industry in Guangdong, I have never heard of WINCO and Dexter. I believe these are brands established by Asian Americans in the United States.
 
We are a small workshop in Guangdong. Guangdong is home to many well-known kitchen knife manufacturers. However, due to the demands of regular customers, most famous knife manufacturers have now abandoned handcrafted products in favor of industrial mass production.
What is the name of your workshop?
 
Back
Top