Quick question - best progression to Rika "kasumi"

[ModRQC]

Hi everyone,

Actually working on a Ginsan knife, thinning is done with - and all overgrinds have been smoothed out.

Question is: say that from a Cerax 320 finish, I'll go through a Naniwa Pro 400 to make sure the overgrinds are all thoroughly gone (or have at it again with the Cerax if you guys think it's a better bet, but I'd like a different scratch pattern and color for easier visual), and from there need to find the best progression within my stones to get to the Rika and have a decent finish.

Choice of intermediary stones is:

NP800
SP1K
SP2K

I also have a SP5K if ever someone considers it could help before going Rika. I don't have enough experience finishing from my stones to know exactly which of these work better from what progression, and while it may not be of penultimate importance, some advice I guess could help me.

How would you proceed?

Thanks for answering!

 

[daveb]

I'm not a polisher by any means. Tried a couple times and learned I can live with a few scuffs. But I think you'll do well to be getting into another soaker before the Rika (assume 5K?) There are a couple 800ish stones that do well with kasumi work. JNS, JKI and even King offer them. I got the closest to acceptable work with the JNS but all put a hazy finish on knives.

 

[ModRQC]

JNS is part of convincing myself to buy a deal right now just to have a good opportunity at a couple of their stones with free shipping.

You're sure not helping me to keep wise with budget right now, but I really appreciate the insight. So I need a muddier in between...

 

[Qapla']

Hi everyone,

Actually working on a Ginsan knife, thinning is done with - and all overgrinds have been smoothed out.

Question is: say that from a Cerax 320 finish, I'll go through a Naniwa Pro 400 to make sure the overgrinds are all thoroughly gone (or have at it again with the Cerax if you guys think it's a better bet, but I'd like a different scratch pattern and color for easier visual), and from there need to find the best progression within my stones to get to the Rika and have a decent finish.

Choice of intermediary stones is:

NP800
SP1K
SP2K

I've never sharpened/polished a ginsan kasumi/awase knife, but if you were kasumi-polishing a carbon-steel awase knife the answer would be the Naniwa Pro 800, as it generates "contrast".

I'd be interested in hearing about the results of whatever you end up choosing.

 

[ModRQC]

It sure won’t be very beautiful but I’m hoping and aiming for effective and good enough quick. I’ll keep KKF posted as I do most my projects for the sake of information, whatever the real value of it.

 

[esoo]

When I was trying to kasumi my Kono FM, I used a King 1K, and then went to the Rika, the Rika left scratches in the finish. I'd just flattened the Rika with a diamond plate so it should've been good.

 

[M1k3]

King 1k seems to leave stainless cladding super dark and with an even finish if you work up some mud. And it's pretty cheap.

 

[Unstoppabo]

JNS 1000 should be perfect for this. It cuts slow but leaves a super consistent kasumi finish and rarely leaves stray scratches like a KDS 800-1k. It's also fairly hard so it makes it easier to tell if the bevels are flat and even.

 

[ian]

the answer would be the Naniwa Pro 800, as it generates "contrast".

Whaaa? I have a Chosera 800 and there is really minimal contrast. Great stone, of course.

Edit: ah, maybe you meant “of the available options that’s the best”. I haven’t tried the others so I can’t say.

But you can get a King 800 for under $30 on Amazon. That’ll give you contrast!

 

[Qapla']

Whaaa? I have a Chosera 800 and there is really minimal contrast. Great stone, of course.

Edit: ah, maybe you meant “of the available options that’s the best”. I haven’t tried the others so I can’t say.

But you can get a King 800 for under $30 on Amazon. That’ll give you contrast!

My Naniwa Pro 800 seems to have created significant contrast on single-bevel white-2 and blue-2 awase knives, at least vis-a-vis other stones I use (including Shaptons), but that could just as easily be the fact that the other stones I use also tend to be "bright-polishers" (or at lower grit ranges, "uniform-scratchers"?).
I've never used a King stone, though, so I have no idea there.

 

[Carl Kotte]

My Naniwa Pro 800 seems to have created significant contrast on single-bevel white-2 and blue-2 awase knives, at least vis-a-vis other stones I use (including Shaptons), but that could just as easily be the fact that the other stones I use also tend to be "bright-polishers" (or at lower grit ranges, "uniform-scratchers"?).
I've never used a King stone, though, so I have no idea there.

I have the same experience. NP 800 leaves a great contrast as a start of the progression. On many, not all knives.
King 800 is a kasumi mud monster and leaves everything dark much faster.

 

[ian]

Funny. Maybe my perspective is skewed, since all my soakers give more contrast than NP 800, and they're primarily what I use.

 

[ModRQC]

Yes, I guess I could count on the darkish swarfy mud both stones tend to create to get some color in there. In my experience the NP800 did get some contrasting out of iron clad/carbon core. I can't remember it working so well (not contrast but uniform consistent coloring) on mono stainless. I know the NP400 can be brought there easily though - my Victorinox 8" has a nice darker relief bevel.

It's getting blurry in my mind, did so much work with so many stones, I'm guilty for not paying enough attention... but am I wrong in thinking that a SP2K with some starting slurry from the Atoma can get good effects too?

I guess we'll see anyhow, can't be spoon fed my finish. Thanks guys, I appreciated all your input. A King is a purchase I wanted to make for a while, I guess I have to try these. And I'm getting more and more tempted by JNS 300 and JNS 800 or 1K.

Edit: BTW... JNS 800 or JNS 1000 FTW ???

 

[Carl Kotte]

Funny. Maybe my perspective is skewed, since all my soakers give more contrast than NP 800, and they're primarily what I use.

Yeah, that makes sense. But try giving your NP some extra water and a little atoma love and see What happens next time.

 

[ModRQC]

Yeah, that makes sense. But try giving your NP some extra water and a little atoma love and see What happens next time.

Ok so I'm not totally out of it, the way I usually work these stones. Good to know... I'm gonna go have at it right now. You guys illuminated this query juuuust in time for me to start more confidently.

See me back later for failed first results.

 

[Unstoppabo]

Yes, I guess I could count on the darkish swarfy mud both stones tend to create to get some color in there. In my experience the NP800 did get some contrasting out of iron clad/carbon core. I can't remember it working so well (not contrast but uniform consistent coloring) on mono stainless. I know the NP400 can be brought there easily though - my Victorinox 8" has a nice darker relief bevel.

It's getting blurry in my mind, did so much work with so many stones, I'm guilty for not paying enough attention... but am I wrong in thinking that a SP2K with some starting slurry from the Atoma can get good effects too?

I guess we'll see anyhow, can't be spoon fed my finish. Thanks guys, I appreciated all your input. A King is a purchase I wanted to make for a while, I guess I have to try these. And I'm getting more and more tempted by JNS 300 and JNS 800 or 1K.

Edit: BTW... JNS 800 or JNS 1000 FTW ???

TBH, the 1k cuts too slow to be great at sharpening or flattening but it is my fav for setting up kasumi finishes.

JNS website hides descriptions under comments now but it says the 800 is "Special made JNS 800 synthetic stone, Extra large and extra soft 1k stone. It is softer then our JNS 1000 stone but much bigger and easier to use. Specially nice for single beveled knives and knives with larger curved bevels." I prefer harder stones so I'm happy with the 1k but if most of your stones are splash & go's, maybe mix it up with a 800 and let us know how it goes!

 

[ModRQC]

All my meds and fine are S&Gs I’m effectively missing on some versatility.

I’ll look into that thanks for the additional info!

I do prefer hard stones but I may not need another one.

 

[ModRQC]

So that’s where we were when I asked for Rika Kasumi here…

Note: I’m unwilling to reveal the identity of the stone that did this work - still not done testing it. Scratch pattern and coloring can be refined further than this with it to resemble sand-blasted finish; here I kept it working faster instead, and management is what makes this stone somewhat difficult, and makes me reluctant to make any statement about it as of yet. Since pretty much no one talks about these, I’d rather do it correctly – and I realized stones don’t come to me as easily as knives when comes the time to talk about them in depth.

From there I had sharpened the blade and tested the half-thinned geometry, which was coming quite close to the sweet spot I intended.

This time around, for Kasumi attempt and from suggestions you guys made, thinning went through Cerax 320 for primary finish, then taken through NP400, NP800, before landing on the Rika.

Note that the following pictures were done after some bit of cosmetic arrangements.

The devilishly good Cerax 320 had done a great deal of making me think the overgrinds and inconsistencies were gone, but I was skeptical because of different scratch pattern and somewhat lighter shade of the sensible spots, and as soon as I hit the NP400 it was obvious there was still some unmistakable trace left of the grand canyon on the left side, as well as other inconsistencies nearing the tip and at the heel on the right side. However, all those are far up the edge, and geometry was closing on what I wanted it to be fast, so I used the gentler NP400 and some patience with the mud to reduce them further as much as I could but these would have to wait on some next bevel maintenance to be ridden of.

I think the progression works very well though, both Naniwas are quite unforgiving but that goes for ensuring the quality of the work done, so I didn’t have much ghost scratches to overcome in the final finish, and their mud works pretty well towards the aim. That I couldn’t get it nailed down perfectly is more telling of my skills than of the abilities of the stones used, I’d say.

 

[ModRQC]

Then a closer look still:

And let's look at the new geometry...

Original choil shot - excuse the picture, but the obvious is still obvious.

Final choil shot:

And then some more

Not easy to reproduce when I need to, but I kind of like the two next shots - they give the right impression of the work I've done, finish imperfections or not:

 

[ModRQC]

Now the more... glamour shots part of this thinning session/finish experiment:

While I was using sandpaper to refinish, I finished also the chamfering of the butt of the handle, and the sanding of the butt itself, a lot left to be desired there originally.

As for refinishing the blade, it was a quick and dirty job, but stands the test of most lights and angles enough to be satisfying - for me. I use this knife, I don't look at it much.

Then a bit of food obviously, and I couldn't wait to get there:

So... thanks for all the help I had here. The advice that stood was to use my NPs, but I retained a bit of every advice for future stone purchases, and other experiments.

Be well everyone!

 

[inferno]

i'm a bit late to the party but i have had good luck with both the naniwa pro 800 and the shapton pro 1k. the 800 gives very dark color without streaks. naniwa pro 2k is also very good, then cerax/ouka 3k.

from there i would go to my kitayama 4k or gray glass 6k.

i make sure my bevels are flat with a 220 then glass 500. then move up to the 800/1k to check if i removed all factory scratches, if not then its back to the 220.

 

[VicWire]

Ouch! Thats a nasty cut!

 

[ModRQC]

Dishwasher plastic strap - had to bring one piled up three high at work, the plastic tie pretty much ripped the skin off as I lowered it down. Don’t try this at home.