Razor Honing: Jnat vs. Coticule vs. Synthetic

[JesusisLord]

So, this is my second week using a straight razor, and I'm loving it. I'm practicing with a $6 Gold Dollar razor, and it's shaving surprisingly well off my Naniwa Gouken Kagayaki 12k stone. I’ve been honing every other day just for the sake of practice since I’m not worried about wearing down this cheap razor. I’ve also been experimenting with different compounds like Gunny Juice 1 micron and DMT Dia Spray 0.5 microns. After trying them out, I realized that it’s actually better not to use any compound for straight razor shaving after the 12k stone. While the compounds work great on my kitchen knives, for straight razors, they seem to take away the 12k edge and make the blade less forgiving.

Today, I shaved straight off the 12k and then went directly to leather, and it was amazing. The edge felt smooth on every pass, and I never felt like it was going to cut me, even against the grain. Sometimes, when I use diamond spray, the edge can feel sketchy at certain angles, especially if I'm not super careful.

But anyway, this post is really about comparing Jnats, Coticules, and synthetic stones. My shaves have been really good off the Naniwa 12k, but I keep hearing that Coticules are better and that Jnats are a step above both. I like my 12k stone and the shaves I get from it, but I’m wondering if it’s worth saving up for a Coticule or Jnat, especially since I was already planning on saving for a 20k Suehiro, which I’ve read gives an unbelievable shave. That stone costs around $300, though, so I figure if I’m spending that much, I might as well skip the Coticule and go straight for a Jnat. I know there’s a huge variety of Jnats out there, but it seems like anyone who has an Ozuku Jnat is really happy with it, and it’s often talked about like the Ferrari of Jnats for razor.

So, what are your thoughts on Jnats, Synthetics, and Coticules? Which one do you think is the best?

For context, here’s my current honing progression:

• 1k Suehiro Cerax (to set the bevel)
• 3k Naniwa Chosera
• 8k Shapton Glass
• Naniwa Gouken Kagayaki 12K (This stone is basically the same as the Naniwa 12k Super Stone, just a newer series that's cheaper. People on Blade & Bagger forums say it gives the same results, and some even say it’s better, but since I don’t own both, I can only tell you this is a great 12k stone.)

 

[stringer]

So, this is my second week using a straight razor, and I'm loving it. I'm practicing with a $6 Gold Dollar razor, and it's shaving surprisingly well off my Naniwa Gouken Kagayaki 12k stone. I’ve been honing every other day just for the sake of practice since I’m not worried about wearing down this cheap razor. I’ve also been experimenting with different compounds like Gunny Juice 1 micron and DMT Dia Spray 0.5 microns. After trying them out, I realized that it’s actually better not to use any compound for straight razor shaving after the 12k stone. While the compounds work great on my kitchen knives, for straight razors, they seem to take away the 12k edge and make the blade less forgiving.

Today, I shaved straight off the 12k and then went directly to leather, and it was amazing. The edge felt smooth on every pass, and I never felt like it was going to cut me, even against the grain. Sometimes, when I use diamond spray, the edge can feel sketchy at certain angles, especially if I'm not super careful.

But anyway, this post is really about comparing Jnats, Coticules, and synthetic stones. My shaves have been really good off the Naniwa 12k, but I keep hearing that Coticules are better and that Jnats are a step above both. I like my 12k stone and the shaves I get from it, but I’m wondering if it’s worth saving up for a Coticule or Jnat, especially since I was already planning on saving for a 20k Suehiro, which I’ve read gives an unbelievable shave. That stone costs around $300, though, so I figure if I’m spending that much, I might as well skip the Coticule and go straight for a Jnat. I know there’s a huge variety of Jnats out there, but it seems like anyone who has an Ozuku Jnat is really happy with it, and it’s often talked about like the Ferrari of Jnats for razor.

So, what are your thoughts on Jnats, Synthetics, and Coticules? Which one do you think is the best?

For context, here’s my current honing progression:

• 1k Suehiro Cerax (to set the bevel)
• 3k Naniwa Chosera
• 8k Shapton Glass
• Naniwa Gouken Kagayaki 12K (This stone is basically the same as the Naniwa 12k Super Stone, just a newer series that's cheaper. People on Blade & Bagger forums say it gives the same results, and some even say it’s better, but since I don’t own both, I can only tell you this is a great 12k stone.)

SG 8k and SS 12k are my favorite synthetic finishers I own.

I have tried about a dozen coticules. It is all I use for midgrit work between bevel setter and finisher. But for me they are not a finisher. At least none that I have tried.

I haven't actually tried any true jnat finishers. My favorite razor finishers are an Escher Thuringian, a Dan's Surgical Black Arkansas, and an ancient glassy Washita.

 

[refcast]

I went to a hone session with Euclid at sharp razors Palace a couple years ago. I got to try all sorts of stuff, films, boron, cotixules, Arkansas, jnats, some vintage Japanese synths. I've owned a bunch of jnat finishers, and tried the suehiro 15k (if I recall correctly . . .. ) and 20k stones.

As long as it shaves well, you're good! Hard Arkansas is really good for final passes, super smooth and keen. I personally use jnats because oddly, I can get them for the cheapest from yahoo auction compared to the other stones, BUT I've been trying to make do with all sorts of grits and stones lately, so as long as you like it, really, that's the end goal

 

[JesusisLord]

SG 8k and SS 12k are my favorite synthetic finishers I own.

I have tried about a dozen coticules. It is all I use for midgrit work between bevel setter and finisher. But for me they are not a finisher. At least none that I have tried.

I haven't actually tried any true jnat finishers. My favorite razor finishers are an Escher Thuringian, a Dan's Surgical Black Arkansas, and an ancient glassy Washita.

I have only used synthetics, and the SG 8 and Naniwa 12k give a smooth shave.

I’m curious, how do the edges from the Escher Thuringian and Dan's Surgical Black Arkansas compare to those from the Naniwa 12k in terms of smoothness and shave quality?

 

[JesusisLord]

I went to a hone session with Euclid at sharp razors Palace a couple years ago. I got to try all sorts of stuff, films, boron, cotixules, Arkansas, jnats, some vintage Japanese synths. I've owned a bunch of jnat finishers, and tried the suehiro 15k (if I recall correctly . . .. ) and 20k stones.

As long as it shaves well, you're good! Hard Arkansas is really good for final passes, super smooth and keen. I personally use jnats because oddly, I can get them for the cheapest from yahoo auction compared to the other stones, BUT I've been trying to make do with all sorts of grits and stones lately, so as long as you like it, really, that's the end goal

I agree! I do love my 12k Naniwa, but I see myself investing in a Jnat soon to see if it offers an even better shave. I’ve watched a few YouTube channels comparing Coticules and Jnats, and most youtubers seem to give the edge to the Jnat they used.

From a user’s perspective, Jnats look and sound more impressive, cutting away facial hair compared to Coticules. Coticules have a milder sound when cutting hair, but they look extremely forgiving when shaving, which is probably why everyone loves them.

 

[stringer]

I have only used synthetics, and the SG 8 and Naniwa 12k give a smooth shave.

I’m curious, how do the edges from the Escher Thuringian and Dan's Surgical Black Arkansas compare to those from the Naniwa 12k in terms of smoothness and shave quality?

Way more scary sharp fresh off of the stones. But in different kind of ways. The Thuringian feels cloyingly buttery smooth and then if you aren't careful you think you did a great job but you have cut it too close and you get a bunch of weepers. A really good hard ark edge doesn't feel like butter, it feels sharp. You can tell it's sharp. I am really careful for the first three or four shaves after I put a new edge on. It is not one for when you are in a rush and hungover. They are also smoother than the Naniwa 12k. Just less margin for error. As far as shave quality, I am not really the best to ask. I always have a beard and mustache. I do one pass to shave my neck and cut the lines on my cheeks. Maybe twice a week. I am not too picky about being baby butt smooth. But I do have super duper sensitive skin. The best for me is a really really sharp edge after it has about ten or twelve shave and strop cycles on it. It tempers out the immediate off the stones harshness, but still has a very keen edge. Maybe just more convexed.

 

[JesusisLord]

Way more scary sharp fresh off of the stones. But in different kind of ways. The Thuringian feels cloyingly buttery smooth and then if you aren't careful you think you did a great job but you have cut it too close and you get a bunch of weepers. A really good hard ark edge doesn't feel like butter, it feels sharp. You can tell it's sharp. I am really careful for the first three or four shaves after I put a new edge on. It is not one for when you are in a rush and hungover. They are also smoother than the Naniwa 12k. Just less margin for error. As far as shave quality, I am not really the best to ask. I always have a beard and mustache. I do one pass to shave my neck and cut the lines on my cheeks. Maybe twice a week. I am not too picky about being baby butt smooth. But I do have super duper sensitive skin. The best for me is a really really sharp edge after it has about ten or twelve shave and strop cycles on it. It tempers out the immediate off the stones harshness, but still has a very keen edge. Maybe just more convexed.

I saw a YouTuber shave with a Thuringian whetstone and he compared it to an Arkansas stone. Both were great, but he said the Thuringian won. From a viewer's perspective, it did look smoother on all passes. I wonder how the Thuringian holds up against an Ozuku, because almost everyone who has an Ozuku considers it their favorite.

 

[Rangen]

I saw a YouTuber shave with a Thuringian whetstone and he compared it to an Arkansas stone. Both were great, but he said the Thuringian won. From a viewer's perspective, it did look smoother on all passes. I wonder how the Thuringian holds up against an Ozuku, because almost everyone who has an Ozuku considers it their favorite.

It all gets very complicated, once you are trying to choose among excellent finishers. There's personal preference, the nature of your skin and beard, and the little subtleties of sharpening technique. Comparing a stone type you've mastered to one you haven't yet can say more about you than the stone.

For example, I use my translucent Arks extremely gently, and only after making a shave-ready edge with another finisher. These edges, I do not find to be excessively sharp; I find them keen and very comfortable. Is that difference from Stringer's experience a preference/skin/beard difference or a process difference? I dunno. The thing I am most keen to figure out at the moment is how much it matters which finisher you use before the Ark. I think the answer is not "none," but I can't go further than that yet.

Meanwhile, after a lot of time on coticules, I eventually went from thinking they produced borderline-dull edges to something clicking and getting some very nice shaving edges, making up in comfort and forgiveness and ease what they lack in ultimate keenness. I am in the opposite situation with my Thuringians; I've never mastered them, never got a result I was happy with. I think that's just because the annoyingly narrow 1" width is a real disincentive to spending the necessary time to develop the skill of using them properly.

I do like my Ozuku, and I'd put it in my top 5-10 most days, and there was a period during which it seemed to represent the best value in an excellent, easy-to-find JNat finisher. But I can't say it's my favorite, among all I've gathered in my finisher hunts.

 

[JesusisLord]

It all gets very complicated, once you are trying to choose among excellent finishers. There's personal preference, the nature of your skin and beard, and the little subtleties of sharpening technique. Comparing a stone type you've mastered to one you haven't yet can say more about you than the stone.

For example, I use my translucent Arks extremely gently, and only after making a shave-ready edge with another finisher. These edges, I do not find to be excessively sharp; I find them keen and very comfortable. Is that difference from Stringer's experience a preference/skin/beard difference or a process difference? I dunno. The thing I am most keen to figure out at the moment is how much it matters which finisher you use before the Ark. I think the answer is not "none," but I can't go further than that yet.

Meanwhile, after a lot of time on coticules, I eventually went from thinking they produced borderline-dull edges to something clicking and getting some very nice shaving edges, making up in comfort and forgiveness and ease what they lack in ultimate keenness. I am in the opposite situation with my Thuringians; I've never mastered them, never got a result I was happy with. I think that's just because the annoyingly narrow 1" width is a real disincentive to spending the necessary time to develop the skill of using them properly.

I do like my Ozuku, and I'd put it in my top 5-10 most days, and there was a period during which it seemed to represent the best value in an excellent, easy-to-find JNat finisher. But I can't say it's my favorite, among all I've gathered in my finisher hunts.

What's your top 5 finishing stones?

 

[Desert Rat]

There is no consensus with straight razor shavers on what is the best, opinions are all over the place.

 

[JesusisLord]

There is no consensus with straight razor shavers on what is the best, opinions are all over the place.

I completely agree. It’s true that there’s no clear consensus among straight razor shavers on what’s best, and opinions are all over the place. However, I’ve rarely heard of anyone who’s tried both synthetic and natural stones and prefers synthetics over naturals for razor honing. While many, myself included, are satisfied with the edge from synthetic stones, the thought that a natural stone might offer an even smoother, more refined finish is hard to resist.

 

[SammieM]

Not all Coticules are razor finishers. I have several and when used with glycerine they perform excellently. The razor could tug a bit if finished with water only.
I have also many JNATs and they do a marvellous job. Ozuku is a hard and fine stone, but you will need a fine tomonagura for it. If you finish on water the edges can be a little harsh. I think @Steve56 here has a lot more experience with JNATs and he could chime in.
As for the Suehiro 20k, I haven’t used it but read many reviews where it said it is not an easy stone to master…
Diamond compounds can be harsh as a finisher but the black Herold paste performs better from my experience.

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

I have the Suehiro 20K. Personally, I feel it is quite easy to use. If you must finish a razor on a synthetic I think this is the bees knees. It makes razors very sharp. However, I do feel that naturals give a less sharp but smoother, more comfortable shave. My 20K gets very little use.

I have 3 razor-finisher JNATs: Ozuku mizu asagi, old Maruka Nakayama asagi, and a fake Maruka Nakayama asagi. All of these are good razor finishers. I also have an Ohira Suita that is a great knife finisher but it isn’t fine enough to finish a razor. And I have a Dan’s surgical black and blue-black Arkansas. These are great razor finishers.

Right now the prices on JNAT’s on yahoo auctions is very compelling. For some strange reason, unrelated to the weak yen, the prices have been trending down on hones. Add in the weak yen and prices are quite attractive. There are a lot of bad stones on there now but there are also quite a number of very nice ones too. Personally I feel that it is worth taking a risk but that isn’t for everyone.

Arks are great too and you might find a nice deal on a vintage Norton or Pike at a good price. Dan’s has great stones and they cost more but he takes the guesswork out of the equation, you’re guanranteed a good stone.

 

[SammieM]

I have the Suehiro 20K. Personally, I feel it is quite easy to use. If you must finish a razor on a synthetic I think this is the bees knees. It makes razors very sharp. However, I do feel that naturals give a less sharp but smoother, more comfortable shave. My 20K gets very little use.

I have 3 razor-finisher JNATs: Ozuku mizu asagi, old Maruka Nakayama asagi, and a fake Maruka Nakayama asagi. All of these are good razor finishers. I also have an Ohira Suita that is a great knife finisher but it isn’t fine enough to finish a razor. And I have a Dan’s surgical black and blue-black Arkansas. These are great razor finishers.

Right now the prices on JNAT’s on yahoo auctions is very compelling. For some strange reason, unrelated to the weak yen, the prices have been trending down on hones. Add in the weak yen and prices are quite attractive. There are a lot of bad stones on there now but there are also quite a number of very nice ones too. Personally I feel that it is worth taking a risk but that isn’t for everyone.

Arks are great too and you might find a nice deal on a vintage Norton or Pike at a good price. Dan’s has great stones and they cost more but he takes the guesswork out of the equation, you’re guanranteed a good stone.

Yahoo prices are great, however it is a gamble. I have gotten couple of great stones and couple of duds from there. The descriptions usually aren’t great, so you have to scrutinise the photos with utmost care and even then you are taking a chance.
When I talked about the Suehiro 20k what I was referring to when I said it is uneasy to use is the balancing of comfort and sharpness. Diamond spray 0.1 micron will give you a much sharper edge but most likely it will not be very comfortable. I always ended up with redness and had to leave my skin to heal for several days.

 

[Rangen]

What's your top 5 finishing stones?

Ah, I was afraid someone would ask that. Now I have to sort it out, and it is not a very fixed hierarchy, and it is not necessarily helpful. But I'll try.

First place is pretty clear: it's an "Iwasaki Select" Nakayama Maruka. It makes the keenest edges of anything I have, so much so that I have to tame them with the linen strop much more than usual, to avoid splitting skin molecules. This was a lot of money for a not very big stone, but it was worth it for sure.

Second place is a JNat of indeterminate type and boring looks, which I bought here. It is so good that I completely believe the well-supported back story: that it was bought from a barber shop in Kyoto that was going out of business, where it had been in use since the 1930s. It not only makes great, comfortable shaving edges, it makes them easily, requiring far less skill than the Iwasaki-selected stone. Price was very reasonable.

Third place is any of my natural finishers, followed by a gentle post-finishing on a vintage Pike translucent ark.

Most of my razors are finished on one of the top three. Everything else is whim and experiment and desire for variety.

For the last two slots, where there is serious competition, I will tentatively put the Morihei Ozuku, and one particular vintage coticule I got, which is seriously concave, but works anyway. My theory was that a razor stone that had seen so much use must work pretty well. That hasn't always worked out, but it did in this case.

I am positive that I have other stones that would match or beat some of these, if only I gave them the time and attention they deserve.

 

[Koop]

I use a coticule, a translucent Arkansas and a couple of Jnats. For me, the Jnats were easiest to use and learn the stones and they give a fantastic finish (Nakayama kiita and asagi). I still use the coti to experiment with and I'm learning to use it effectively. I often follow the coti with the Ark to give a very keen, but comfortable edge.

 

[Desert Rat]

I completely agree. It’s true that there’s no clear consensus among straight razor shavers on what’s best, and opinions are all over the place. However, I’ve rarely heard of anyone who’s tried both synthetic and natural stones and prefers synthetics over naturals for razor honing. While many, myself included, are satisfied with the edge from synthetic stones, the thought that a natural stone might offer an even smoother, more refined finish is hard to resist.

It seems to me that beginners require a sharper edge, I'm not sure why.

I only have a couple of jnats and they are really good, maybe I got lucky I don't know but they are easy to use. I have a few thuri's and they are probably the easiest of all and they deliver really sharp edges, maybe to sharp and I don't find them as comfortable as the other finishers.

I really hated my first coticule and it ate my lunch every day for a couple of weeks until the light came on. I love them things now and can shave off of all the couple of handfuls that I own. Lots of variation with them but I think they are great stones regardless of if they produce a shaving edge for you or not. They work well for me in front of about any finisher I have.

 

[stringer]

Top 5:

1. Dan's Black
2. Thuringian
3. Jasper (super hard and glassy 20k+ grit)
4. Ancient glassy Washita
5. 1960s Smith's Tri-Hone Hard Ark

 

[Desert Rat]

Top 5:

1. Dan's Black
2. Thuringian
3. Jasper (super hard and glassy 20k+ grit)
4. Ancient glassy Washita
5. 1960s Smith's Tri-Hone Hard Ark

Did you get one of those semi translucents off that Smith's tri-hone?

I get really sharp edges off of jasper or petrified wood used as a post finisher. Not good for me as a daily driver but if I'm in the mood for a screaming sharp edge that is it.

 

[stringer]

Did you get one of those semi translucents off that Smith's tri-hone?

I get really sharp edges off of jasper or petrified wood used as a post finisher. Not good for me as a daily driver but if I'm in the mood for a screaming sharp edge that is it.

I have three or four of them now. Couple of 6", couple of 8". They are really fantastic stones for both razors and knives

 

[JesusisLord]

Not all Coticules are razor finishers. I have several and when used with glycerine they perform excellently. The razor could tug a bit if finished with water only.
I have also many JNATs and they do a marvellous job. Ozuku is a hard and fine stone, but you will need a fine tomonagura for it. If you finish on water the edges can be a little harsh. I think @Steve56 here has a lot more experience with JNATs and he could chime in.
As for the Suehiro 20k, I haven’t used it but read many reviews where it said it is not an easy stone to master…
Diamond compounds can be harsh as a finisher but the black Herold paste performs better from my experience.

I’ve been curious about JNATs, especially the Ozuku. Your mention of needing a fine tomonagura makes sense. I’ll keep that in mind as I explore more about them.

I wasn’t aware that diamond compounds could be harsh as finishers. It’s good to know that Herold Paste might be a better option for honing.

I’m still on the fence about using compounds, but I’m open to experimenting to see how they perform.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I appreciate the advice!

 

[JesusisLord]

I have the Suehiro 20K. Personally, I feel it is quite easy to use. If you must finish a razor on a synthetic I think this is the bees knees. It makes razors very sharp. However, I do feel that naturals give a less sharp but smoother, more comfortable shave. My 20K gets very little use.

I have 3 razor-finisher JNATs: Ozuku mizu asagi, old Maruka Nakayama asagi, and a fake Maruka Nakayama asagi. All of these are good razor finishers. I also have an Ohira Suita that is a great knife finisher but it isn’t fine enough to finish a razor. And I have a Dan’s surgical black and blue-black Arkansas. These are great razor finishers.

Right now the prices on JNAT’s on yahoo auctions is very compelling. For some strange reason, unrelated to the weak yen, the prices have been trending down on hones. Add in the weak yen and prices are quite attractive. There are a lot of bad stones on there now but there are also quite a number of very nice ones too. Personally I feel that it is worth taking a risk but that isn’t for everyone.

Arks are great too and you might find a nice deal on a vintage Norton or Pike at a good price. Dan’s has great stones and they cost more but he takes the guesswork out of the equation, you’re guanranteed a good stone.

Yeah, I’ve heard that the Suehiro 20K is considered one of the best synthetic finishers out there, and it's great to hear that you find it easy to use. But like you mentioned, it seems that people who have tried both synthetics and naturals often prefer the natural finishers for razors. It makes a lot of sense, especially if the natural stones provide a milder, smoother edge that’s still sharp enough to shave comfortably.

The sharper edge from synthetics like the Suehiro 20K can be great, but if a natural finisher gives you that perfect balance of smoothness and just enough sharpness to shave with ease, it’s easy to see why they would be preferred. Your collection of razor-finishers, especially those JNATs, sounds amazing, and it’s interesting to hear your take on the market trends too.

I just took a look at Yahoo Auctions, and I noticed that many of the natural whetstones listed seem to have generic titles like "Natural Whetstone Finishing Stone" without specific names like Ozuku. Is it common for these stones to be listed without clear identification, or are they just random stones with no particular provenance? I’d love to understand more about navigating these listings!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I’m definitely leaning toward naturals for that more comfortable edge!

 

[JesusisLord]

Yahoo prices are great, however it is a gamble. I have gotten couple of great stones and couple of duds from there. The descriptions usually aren’t great, so you have to scrutinise the photos with utmost care and even then you are taking a chance.
When I talked about the Suehiro 20k what I was referring to when I said it is uneasy to use is the balancing of comfort and sharpness. Diamond spray 0.1 micron will give you a much sharper edge but most likely it will not be very comfortable. I always ended up with redness and had to leave my skin to heal for several days.

This is exactly the kind of shave I try to avoid. My 12k Naniwa followed by plain leather gives me a smooth, comfortable shave. However, when I add diamond compound to the routine, the edge becomes sharper, but my skin ends up feeling slightly irritated and needs time to heal. I also notice that the alum block stings more than I’d like after the shave.

 

[JesusisLord]

Ah, I was afraid someone would ask that. Now I have to sort it out, and it is not a very fixed hierarchy, and it is not necessarily helpful. But I'll try.

First place is pretty clear: it's an "Iwasaki Select" Nakayama Maruka. It makes the keenest edges of anything I have, so much so that I have to tame them with the linen strop much more than usual, to avoid splitting skin molecules. This was a lot of money for a not very big stone, but it was worth it for sure.

Second place is a JNat of indeterminate type and boring looks, which I bought here. It is so good that I completely believe the well-supported back story: that it was bought from a barber shop in Kyoto that was going out of business, where it had been in use since the 1930s. It not only makes great, comfortable shaving edges, it makes them easily, requiring far less skill than the Iwasaki-selected stone. Price was very reasonable.

Third place is any of my natural finishers, followed by a gentle post-finishing on a vintage Pike translucent ark.

Most of my razors are finished on one of the top three. Everything else is whim and experiment and desire for variety.

For the last two slots, where there is serious competition, I will tentatively put the Morihei Ozuku, and one particular vintage coticule I got, which is seriously concave, but works anyway. My theory was that a razor stone that had seen so much use must work pretty well. That hasn't always worked out, but it did in this case.

I am positive that I have other stones that would match or beat some of these, if only I gave them the time and attention they deserve.

I just looked up Nakayama Maruka whetstones, and wow, they are definitely on the pricey side! I watched a couple of YouTube videos of people shaving with them, and the edges they produce look incredibly smooth and comfortable. It’s clear why the Iwasaki Select Nakayama Maruka would be your top pick. It must be a phenomenal stone if it delivers such keen edges, even if they need a bit of taming.

Your second pick sounds fascinating too, especially with that history of being used in a Kyoto barber shop since the 1930s. It’s amazing how some of these older, less flashy stones can still perform so well. And finishing off with a vintage Pike translucent Ark must give your razors that final smooth touch.

I love how each stone in your collection has its own place and purpose; it really highlights the unique qualities of natural finishers.

 

[JesusisLord]

I use a coticule, a translucent Arkansas and a couple of Jnats. For me, the Jnats were easiest to use and learn the stones and they give a fantastic finish (Nakayama kiita and asagi). I still use the coti to experiment with and I'm learning to use it effectively. I often follow the coti with the Ark to give a very keen, but comfortable edge.

That’s really cool! It sounds like you’ve got a pretty solid setup with your coticule and Arkansas stones. I’ve noticed a lot of people have at least one of each in their rotation. It seems like they’re pretty common for a reason. Your other Jnats sound amazing too, especially for finishing.

It’s awesome that you’re finding what works best for you and learning to get the most out of each stone. I might have to look into getting a coti and Arkansas myself, =sounds like they’re worth having around!

 

[JesusisLord]

Top 5:

1. Dan's Black
2. Thuringian
3. Jasper (super hard and glassy 20k+ grit)
4. Ancient glassy Washita
5. 1960s Smith's Tri-Hone Hard Ark

Nice stones!

Dan's Black looks really cool, and if it performs well, that’s another plus. If I get an Arkansas stone, I’ll probably choose Dan’s Black.

Jasper stones seem to be really cheap based on my recent Google search. Is this true for all types of jasper?

 

[stringer]

Nice stones!

Dan's Black looks really cool, and if it performs well, that’s another plus. If I get an Arkansas stone, I’ll probably choose Dan’s Black.

Jasper stones seem to be really cheap based on my recent Google search. Is this true for all types of jasper?

There are lots of people that sell Jasper but I'm unaware of any readily available high quality Jasper whetstones. I have found two after searching for most of the last 5 years on eBay.

 

[SammieM]

This is exactly the kind of shave I try to avoid. My 12k Naniwa followed by plain leather gives me a smooth, comfortable shave. However, when I add diamond compound to the routine, the edge becomes sharper, but my skin ends up feeling slightly irritated and needs time to heal. I also notice that the alum block stings more than I’d like after the shave.

Give the black paste a go. It comes with a red too which is useless after 12k. Don’t overdo it. 10-15 laps on a denim or balsa with no pressure and see how you get on. It is cheap so you won’t loose much…

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

Yeah, I’ve heard that the Suehiro 20K is considered one of the best synthetic finishers out there, and it's great to hear that you find it easy to use. But like you mentioned, it seems that people who have tried both synthetics and naturals often prefer the natural finishers for razors. It makes a lot of sense, especially if the natural stones provide a milder, smoother edge that’s still sharp enough to shave comfortably.

The sharper edge from synthetics like the Suehiro 20K can be great, but if a natural finisher gives you that perfect balance of smoothness and just enough sharpness to shave with ease, it’s easy to see why they would be preferred. Your collection of razor-finishers, especially those JNATs, sounds amazing, and it’s interesting to hear your take on the market trends too.

I just took a look at Yahoo Auctions, and I noticed that many of the natural whetstones listed seem to have generic titles like "Natural Whetstone Finishing Stone" without specific names like Ozuku. Is it common for these stones to be listed without clear identification, or are they just random stones with no particular provenance? I’d love to understand more about navigating these listings!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I’m definitely leaning toward naturals for that more comfortable edge!

The 20K basically becomes irrelevant if you have a quality natural stone. And don’t misunderstand, it is arguably the best synthetic stone on the market. It just becomes irrelevant in the presence of a quality natural stone. In many cases that natural stone - like a Dan’s black or quality vintage Norton, can be half the price of the 20K.

If you have a 12K, you are well set up for launching to any finishing stone including Arks. JNATs have a wider range and can easily pick up from an 8K which is a time saver. In fact, there is a video on YT where one of the most respected honemeisters is going straight from a King 1K to a JNAT finisher. (Look for the “Ax Method”.)

Typical of Japanese culture, they will often undersell their stuff on auctions, oftentimes simply putting up pictures, dimensions, weight and “it is a natural whetstone”. Keep in mind there are a lot of savants in Japan and some overseas that can accurately identify a rock’s pedigree by a picture alone. Most of these savants however are resellers so they might score a win on a cheap Ozuku and mark up up appropriately for the foreign market.

Couple of points. Sort the auctions by # of bids and watch the actions and what price points rocks are selling at. One of the big problems for razor honers is we think razor bones are the most desired so they should be the most expensive. Not true. Knife people and woodworkers are equal and more intense about their stones. A high price does not correlate to a quality razor hone. In fact, if the stone is without a label and stamps, they tend to be a bit on the cheaper side as most razor stones can be rather bland looking. Dramatic stones like uchigomori and varieties of suitas can be very dramatic.

Look for stones with bids on them. It is basically an unwritten rule that sellers need to list their stones with a 1 yen start. Also focus on stones that are ending on a weekday. Japanese have all their high end stuff end on weekends due to everyone being off work and able to bid on stuff. Stuff ending on weekdays usually have far fewer bidders and much lower pricing.

Also keep in mind that while “came from a Barber shop in Kyoto” can be a good indicator of a razor hone, many barber shops also sharpened knives and other cutlery. Plenty of knife hones come from barber shops too.

Generally, the one good thing about “gambling” on YA, and it is a gamble, is that you will generally get a rather good stone at a good price. Even if you get a very nice knife stone, you may want to keep it. My Ohira Suita came that way. I was looking for another razor hone. Turns out it is the best knife stone I have. Alternatively, you tend to be able to sell them outside of Japan for more than what you paid for them. As long as you are willing to part with and sell the stones (something I have not been able to do), there isn’t much monetary risk.

 

[stringer]

As long as you are willing to part with and sell the stones (something I have not been able to do), there isn’t much monetary risk.

And there's the rub!