S&G Coarse stone to pair with SP2K

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MowgFace

MowgFace

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Hello all-

Looking to find a Splash and Go coarse stone to pair with my Shapton Pro 2K.

Any recommendations appreciated. Preferably I’d like to stay in the Shapton Pro line (For size reasons) , like the 220/320. Any Splash and Go would be considered.

These stones are destined to live in my trunk to be used to sharpen friends knives when I am visiting.

I imagine most knives will be Soft stainless, but many of my friends have 1-2 Japanese knives I have gifted them.

Thanks in advance!
 
Go low. If your friends are like mine, their knives mysteriously never seem to have edges at all and the jump from a 220 to a good 2K like the shapton is not a problem.

That said, something like a Shapton Glass 500 might be worth considering because for crappy steel, a 2K edge is really too high. A decent stropped 500 grit edge might serve better and the SG500 is pretty portable.
 
I appreciate all the recommendations.

As @branwell mentioned, other than the select Japanese knives they have, most knives are going to need some aggressive thinning/bevel setting so something low will be needed, otherwise I’d probably go Glass 500.
 
I've recently been using the SP 220 and like it far more then expected. The 320 would be just as useful and both are reasonably priced.
 
A bit more info: For the farmers market i used Chosera 400, red brick 1000 (Naniwa I think), Rika 5000. Then got a Sigma 240 since i was doing this by hand and a la minute for the stuff that is really power tool territory. Saw mainly poorly maintained mass produced stainless and got to where i could do something around 35-40 of them in 4 hours

Oops, not one hour, four!
 
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For my friends knives, cheap stainless, I usually start on a SP320 but sometimes need to go down to the SP220 if they are really dull, then finish on a SP1000 and with some of the better knives, henckles etc, I finish on a SP2000.
 
Who goes down to 220 for a dull edge? If need to go that low you’re cutting a huge new bevel or mega relief or something. Getting a burr following established bevel NP400 - SG500 I don’t care how cheap SS takes 30 seconds at worse. Both will deburr much more easily also, cutting down on wasted time over the med stone. And if you’re going to stop at the coarse stone (but SP2K is none too much for cheap SS, still in a ballpark they can support with the usual 17-25* on each side) and want fast and coarser abilities, SP320 is an excellent choice with surprising deburring abilities. It cuts twice as fast as NP400 in my experience, can do maintenance thinning small repairs and cutting bevels pretty fast while being well-behaved for sharpening. It was my only coarse for months and it’s the nicest coarse all-rounder I ever used to date. My POV.
 
ModRQC said:
Who goes down to 220 for a dull edge? If need to go that low you’re cutting a huge new bevel or mega relief or something. Getting a burr following established bevel NP400 - SG500 I don’t care how cheap SS takes 30 seconds at worse. Both will deburr much more easily also, cutting down on wasted time over the med stone. And if you’re going to stop at the coarse stone (but SP2K is none too much for cheap SS, still in a ballpark they can support with the usual 17-25* on each side) and want fast and coarser abilities, SP320 is an excellent choice with surprising deburring abilities. It cuts twice as fast as NP400 in my experience, can do maintenance thinning small repairs and cutting bevels pretty fast while being well-behaved for sharpening. It was my only coarse for months and it’s the nicest coarse all-rounder I ever used to date. My POV.
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@Sailor drops down to 200-220 pretty often in his videos. I find it works good for those soft stainless knives that haven't been sharpened in forever for friends and neighbors. Most of them have weakened steel at the edge anyway.
 
220 is what I would prefer for thinning and sh!t steel weed whacking. Not to compare, but The Gesshin 220 pink brick is my usual steel consumer.

Is the 220 to 2K too big a jump? Or, more accurately, do you think, when comparing the 320 and 220, would the speed advantage the 220 has, outweigh the time it would take to then refine the scratch pattern with the 2000?

I realize the real answer is that it really doesn’t matter and both would do just fine and the time difference is negligible, but hell, that’s why we’re here. ;)
 
I torture myself working on old, thick forgecrafts. The SP220 is the first course stone I didn't mind grinding away with. Mind you I tend not to use heavy pressure when sharpening..
 
I will have to disagree even where I agree - if only with context in mind.

1st, I've sharpened really dull knives - and thick ones. A Sabatier rod honed to hell comes to mind, that was thick as hell. ****** Padernos, none too thin but not as worse as the Sabatier. A Lagostina - this one wasn't so old, but I think I never saw before a knife so thick behind the edge "out of the box" so to speak, and manufacturer "sharpening" angle was really obtuse - exploding the usual ballpark of 30-50 inclusive by some. And yes, sharpening isn't enough. I would need a coarse stone, because I would go further than just sharpening.

Putting that aside, am I going to hunt for two S&Gs with one that coarse that I can carry around to friend's home and do some sharpening, thinking that this will be a quick and clean operation? Nope. I will need a pond, a few splashes water, there will be mud and swarf as hell. Not kidding myself that I'm gonna do this at their house on a towel. Not gonna suppose they will be okay with me emptying and rinsing my pond in their 1K$ luxurious kitchen sink. Not gonna suppose some of them aren't going to oppose to see me drain that **** down their plumbing. I'll take that serious work needing knife back home, and really work at it.

As for stones behavior, in my experience anything lower than the #320 ballpark means a lot of swarf - the gross thick kind. Will need to splash these away before sharpening. And will need couple more splashes going in, or when deburring needing a clean stone. Something like SP320, NP400, or I suppose without experience, SG500, will be much more behaved. More time involved in setting a bevel or relief, but a lot less of a mess involved. Basically one splash to clean after getting a solid burr and flipping it some, another splash before final deburring. Add a third if I did set a bevel.

Then there's SP2K - a magical stone, but with a jump like #220 to SP2K, I don't give a damn your deburring skills, you'll need to splash SP2K 3-4 times to get the rolling pieces of coarse burr out, then getting the finer but still dangerous swarf out of really refining that edge. And still at the end, another splash. Not something I will do on a towel neither.

Not kidding myself here - coarsest stone I would take to a friend would be SP320-NP400, and that because with these specifically, metal removal is just that bit more refined that I can basically use 2-3 splashes total. Only 2 if I just sharpen.

Also, they will deburr much better. And what SP2K will immediately shed out of that edge as soon as I touch it, will need 1 splash to get out, then it will be refined swarf that can be carried on until final deburring, with one additional splash. All this can be done upon a (thick) towel that I can just bag and bring back home after.

And please... setting a bevel or a relief 20 minutes does NOT take on even NP400. Very hard stones and quite capable, with the correct technique you can get there in mere minutes for a relief, 1-2 at most for an edge bevel. And that is really the coarsest work I would intend to do at a friend's place with minimal setup and cleaning after. And for reasons aforementioned, nope #220/#240 and the likes won't be my initial choice. I wouldn't even CONSIDER it for a second.
 
If your knife mostly stainless, go sp220 instead of SP320, sp 320 more suitable for carbon, 220 for stainless.

Or SG 500 double thick. They're all good match with your SP2K.
 
For sharpening/beveling anything it’s fast enough. No great feeling but controllable and not needy there water wise. When more steels/wider area needs to move, keep it hydrated enough to avoid clogging - main obstacle to it.
 
I’m gonna cruise with my little Suehiro Sharpening pond SP320-SP2000.

Should be a more convenient setup than the Beston 500-Naniwa Green Brick of Frustration.
 
For stainless 220 is better, SP320 specialist for carbon only, for stainless not so friendly.
 
ModRQC said:
Putting that aside, am I going to hunt for two S&Gs with one that coarse that I can carry around to friend's home and do some sharpening, thinking that this will be a quick and clean operation? Nope. I will need a pond, a few splashes water, there will be mud and swarf as hell. Not kidding myself that I'm gonna do this at their house on a towel. Not gonna suppose they will be okay with me emptying and rinsing my pond in their 1K$ luxurious kitchen sink. Not gonna suppose some of them aren't going to oppose to see me drain that **** down their plumbing. I'll take that serious work needing knife back home, and really work at it.

As for stones behavior, in my experience anything lower than the #320 ballpark means a lot of swarf - the gross thick kind. Will need to splash these away before sharpening. And will need couple more splashes going in, or when deburring needing a clean stone. Something like SP320, NP400, or I suppose without experience, SG500, will be much more behaved. More time involved in setting a bevel or relief, but a lot less of a mess involved. Basically one splash to clean after getting a solid burr and flipping it some, another splash before final deburring. Add a third if I did set a bevel.
Click to expand...

There is an argument to be made for oil stones in this context. A little oil floats the swarf, which is wiped away with a towel and easily bagged.
 
Update: So far haven't had any real complaints about the 320. When I had first received the stone, I sent a bunch of my regular users (VG10, G3, W#2, W#1, AUS8) through the 320/2000 combination and think this is a solid 2 stone traveling combo. Still interested in the 220, but for now it has been great!

Thank you all for your suggestions.
 
All this love for the shapton glass 500 makes me want to try one out. I'm a big fan of my 320
 
I'm a big fan of both SG320 and SG500. I wouldn't look at the SG500 as a 180 grits difference and "redundant" to the #320. It's an entirely different stone, a bit faster than SP1K to a similar edge refinement. And SG500 bridges most of anything to anything. It's so amazing that way. Any real coarse stone to SG500 - checked, and with care will remove most of the scratches. Any finer stone after SG500 - checked, and it will either complement a close finishing leap (like SP2K for example) or huge leap (SG4K, Morihei 4K, SG6K checked). Will complement hard stones like itself or muddy stones like Cerax. Just dial it in anything you think if might fit, and you've got a deal for sure.
 
I’ve been very happy so far with my SP320 so far (5-6 months). I’ve done some serious chip repair on it, that made me wish for something a bit coarser (or electric), but otherwise it sets edges and bevels very quickly and easily on a wide variety of steels.
 
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