SG4k vs SG6k

[Dave]

Hi KKF,

Started my sharpening journey with an Atoma 140, SG500, and SG2k, but as I've started collecting some Westerns in need of some love, I feel like I could benefit from a third stone. Was looking at either a 4k or 6k. Specifically looking at them to use on 52100, Spicy White, and 135cr3. I feel like the 2k isn't quite reaching the apex (figuratively, not literally), as I can easily get paper cutting sharp, but have a hard time getting paper-towel slicing sharp.

Is this even worth considering or is my current lineup good enough? Lol, yeah, I know... KKF Enabling™

If worth buying, which stone would you fine gentlemen recommend?

 

[Simply]

Sg500 to sg2k is a great progression. Have brought a few knives to paper towel with it. Just posted a shindo that was paper towel ready after only sg500. The 4k is a great stone but I don’t reach for it often, chosera 3000 is my rock. Both would do. Haven’t seen great feedback about the 6k.

Have you flattened your stones? The sg500 really wakes up after hitting it with the atoma. Are you stropping? I’ve noticed often times this removes/refines the “tooth” needed for paper towels and some veg.

IMO

Sg500 - when you need to clean up the edge/reset bevels.

Chosera 800 - another goody

Sg2k - starting point for regular sharpening

Chosera 3k or sg4k - refinement, light edge leading strokes/strop to finish

Coticule, aizu, other jnat - take it to next level while keeping some tooth (can experiment with skipping some grits in the progression too). Also for quick touchups

 

[Benuser]

Realise with fine stones you will get diminishing returns. If your edge is OK after a SP2k, the improvement you may expect aren't that great. A different situation of course if you really need a finer stone to get rid of a burr.
The SG4k is an excellent stone, requiring a very precise work. The edge it delivers might be slightly coarser than the name suggests.
In the same category you'll find the Naniwa Pro / Chosera 3k. Delivers a 4k edge. At use a bit easier than the SG4k, and offering a lot of tactile and aural feedback.
I can't say which is better. They have very different characters, but both are excellent stones. In most parts of the world the Naniwa Pro / Chosera has become very expensive.
No experience here with the SG5k. Anyway, I would warn against the Naniwa Pro / Chosera 5k. Very expensive, softer than other in the series, giving no feedback. Hard to imagine situations where it is needed, or even offer an improvement you can't easily achieve otherwise.

 

[Dave]

Sg500 to sg2k is a great progression. Have brought a few knives to paper towel with it. Just posted a shindo that was paper towel ready after only sg500. The 4k is a great stone but I don’t reach for it often, chosera 3000 is my rock. Both would do. Haven’t seen great feedback about the 6k.

Have you flattened your stones? The sg500 really wakes up after hitting it with the atoma. Are you stropping? I’ve noticed often times this removes/refines the “tooth” needed for paper towels and some veg.

IMO

Sg500 - when you need to clean up the edge/reset bevels.

Chosera 800 - another goody

Sg2k - starting point for regular sharpening

Chosera 3k or sg4k - refinement, light edge leading strokes/strop to finish

Coticule, aizu, other jnat - take it to next level while keeping some tooth (can experiment with skipping some grits in the progression too). Also for quick touchups

I draw a grid on them using a pencil and flatten with the Atoma 140 until the grid is gone, each time before use. I'm currently not stropping, just de-burring with the 2k. I am getting good edges--my turing test is tomatoes with almost no pressure, and those give no issues. Maybe my technique just needs refinement to get paper towel sharp?

I was leaning toward just staying with the 2 stone progression until I was confident I was maxing out results with them, but it's hard to tell if I am.

 

[sumis]

i really like the sg4k. haven't used the sg6k.

i use it for full for two things:
– full progression; i end with light polishing on sg4k; light, as to not make it too refined for my taste in kitchen use edges.
– touch up. great for both stropping, and/or short/light passes to revive an edge. i also use a bbw for this, but i find the bbw much more finicky.

for a while, in a tight spot exiled on sardinia, i even used a sg4k for dry stropping, edge leading. brought sg2 back to toothy life surprisingly well.

with that said, lately i've done 'heavy' touch up passes on just a sg2k.

.

 

[Delat]

I have an SG4k and don’t see any need to go beyond it - sometimes the edges from it can feel a little slippery on tomato skins. These days I mostly use it for final deburring and stropping-style light touchups to minimize steel loss from going lower. In fact I’d say you could just stop at your SP2k as well - anything higher is just for playing/experimenting and not really necessary, IMHO. But if you want to experiment then go for it - I bought a nagura recently and am contemplating an aizu for no particular reason!

Anyway, for the paper towel test see my video in the paper towel thread coming off an SG500. There’s guys here that can do HHT5 off even more coarse stones so it’s more the user than the tool.
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/paper-towel-challenge.71374/post-1148381

 

[Justinv]

I’ve heard the morihei 6000 is a good finisher for carbon steel but I don’t own one. Lots of options here.

 

[Benuser]

I draw a grid on them using a pencil and flatten with the Atoma 140 until the grid is gone, each time before use. I'm currently not stropping, just de-burring with the 2k. I am getting good edges--my turing test is tomatoes with almost no pressure, and those give no issues. Maybe my technique just needs refinement to get paper towel sharp?

I was leaning toward just staying with the 2 stone progression until I was confident I was maxing out results with them, but it's hard to tell if I am.

I only can see two reasons to get a finer stone. If you can't completely remove the burr with your present ones. Happens with some steel types, as VG-10 or SG2. Or if you want to allow touching-up with a very fine stone, as I do with carbons which are so little abrasion resistant I want to avoid unnecessary contact with coarse stones. Perhaps once a year they get a full sharpening with some thinning behind the edge. Otherwise I can touch-up with a Belgian Blue, or even an 8k.
I've seen a lot of people who didn't like their 1.5k or 2k edge and expected an improvement by getting finer stones. In fact, their problem was almost always in the poor use of their first stone: too hasty jumping to the next one, poor deburring, expecting to correct errors with finer stones, which is an illusion.
I do like my fine stones al lot. But don't expect miracles.

 

[Luminaire]

Highly recommend morihei 6k instead of sg6k. Really love the morihei 6k & 9k. Just bought a 4k morihei to try out but it hasn't arrived yet...my sg4k is defective I think, very flakey and gritty even after lapping off a lot of the stone (and rinsing it well)

But also for me, paper towel cutting edges seem to be best around 1k so if that's your goal, it's probably just more work on deburring

 

[Just a DK]

I do use the morihei 4k and 6k…

But am BBW / coticule curious.

The moriheis are soft and thirsty, that might be a very different feel for you coming from the shaptons. Might feel more at home if you are coming from the harder natural stones.

 

[Simply]

I do use the morihei 4k and 6k…

But am BBW / coticule curious.

The moriheis are soft and thirsty, that might be a very different feel for you coming from the shaptons. Might feel more at home if you are coming from the harder natural stones.

Do it. Coti has been amazing for touch ups mostly freehand, very little pressure.

 

[JPAU]

I draw a grid on them using a pencil and flatten with the Atoma 140 until the grid is gone, each time before use. I'm currently not stropping, just de-burring with the 2k. I am getting good edges--my turing test is tomatoes with almost no pressure, and those give no issues. Maybe my technique just needs refinement to get paper towel sharp?

I was leaning toward just staying with the 2 stone progression until I was confident I was maxing out results with them, but it's hard to tell if I am.

It’s technique for sure man - I get paper towel cutting (albeit a bit rough) after SG500 and smooth paper towel cuts after SR2000. Strop takes it to the next level but not necessarily if you strop and debut on the 2000 in my experience. I’ve only been sharpening for a few months, so do not think you need to master it to achieve the smooth paper towel cut

I have a SR6000 and barely use it. If anything, just to strop with edge trailing strokes after SR2000. I got it for 30USD so I would say it was worth it, but if you’re paying much more, I’d say it’s juice not worth the squeeze.

BBW not a bad option - different ballgame and probably adds more versatility in terms of use - can use this to touch up edges or in your progression.

 

[Dave]

Thanks for the responses everybody. After reading everyone's thoughts, I think I'm going to hold off on purchasing another stone and work on my technique. I'll probably try to stop at 500 and just deburr on the 2k the next time and see how that goes.

I suppose if MTC has another 20% off sale I'll pick up a 4k, but no rush for the time being.

 

[mengwong]

Have you got a strop? If not you could consider paddling your knives against a kangaroo.

 

[Benuser]

In addition only: I like stropping in the last phase of deburring. Stropping one side and removing the moved debris at the other side with the stone, and the same the other way around. The less abrasive the strop is the less you have to concern about the angle. I use my hand's palm.
For more common stropping keep the angle lower than your sharpening angle. Any strop has some giving. You don't want to round the edge in this final stage. I love stropping, but don't expect a result that lasts, if your edge wasn't great.